Were would PSA be if it wasnt for EBAY?

boggs301012

With out EBAY to quickly move the cards I think they would be grading far less cards. Maybe 30 to 50 % of what is graded today. This would also greatly reduce how fast a dealer could flip a card. And it would deminish the price on most cards.The registry would be a ghost town. I admit I only heard of PSA due to ebay. What are you thoughts?

I have many more but I never type alot in fear of the grammar police.


James

1420sports

eBay has helped PSA and a host of other companies grow. Without eBay, GAI, SGC, Beckett, card prices, card dealers, card collectors, Wade Boggs availibilty etc, etc etc would all be different. This forum may not even be around.

I too first heard of PSA through eBay. Probably many of us here as well.

It seems like you may have a hidden agenda here ...

carew4me

Hurtin....BIG TIME!

RepublicaninMass

I was doing card shows back in 1990-1991 i saw 1 or 2 PSA cards and thought "what the hell are those". I thought it would NEVER take off. What was the point, not to be able to fondle, drop and grease up the cards. Of course this was before ebay! Now who knows what theya re buying, unless it has been graded by a third party. At the shows, you pay for what you get....how bout that huh?!!??!?!!

WinPitcher

i think psa would have continued growing with or without ebay. i think ebay hurt card shows more then it helped psa.

Lothar52

i agree james...the whole reason to collect a set in PSA is
1- buy cards uhave not seen or inspected in person
2- they are protected....to a degree
3- it looks more official

due to ebay i believe most of us collect them for availability and 1...

any other thoughts??

boggs301012

PSA would have fewer employees. And the prices might be higher then they are today. So ebay has also helped in that area.

I enjoy knowing when I buy a graded card it is 99% dead on. I used to dislike dealers I would call in the early 90's and ask if the card I was calling about mint. Take a drive out there and find out it wouldnt grade a 7 by todays standards. I was a condition person befor PSA and EBAY came along. SO when I saw a PSA Boggs card I was SO pleased. And have been buying them for about 5 years. Been on ebay for about 8 years.

As far a hinden agenda....not really I just the man at the top is a little over rated. (an after thought )


James

RepublicaninMass

<< <i>i think psa would have continued growing with or without ebay. i think ebay hurt card shows more then it helped psa. >>

carew4me

Ebay probably increased the buying pool by 20-30x. This has had a rippling effect. Ebay was the stone cast.

Vargha

I have many more but I never type alot in fear of the grammar police.

You wish, James. The poor grammar in your posts have exalted you to the level of "federal criminal". You should be more concerned about the Homeland Grammar Security Department at this point in time.

RepublicaninMass

geh

ctsoxfan

feh

DirtyHarry

I agree with James and others. PSA and grading companies would still have grown, but not as exponentially as they have due to the Ebay top spin.

JonB

I think Steve came real close "i think psa would have continued growing with or without ebay. i think ebay hurt card shows more then it helped psa. "

I think PSA would have continued to grow, but not anywhere near what it is today. PSA is so big because ebay got so big, and because ebay is so big, the card shows really got hurt.

If people were still going to the weekly card show at the holiday inn down the street, they could see more cards for themself and wouldn't have such a need for graded cards. When I used to go to the huge Tri-Star shows in dallas (I live in fort worth)... I still remember when Beckett first started grading, and used to drop off cards at their office in person before I learned about PSA... but I used to think grading was absolutely the most stupid thing in the world. the only reason I got anything graded back in the day was because it would increase the resell value in some cases. Now I realize, especially with ebay and really any online site, that graded cards (esp for vintage) is the only way to buy unless you have a dealer that you can truly trust, which is extrememly rare.

Now though I realize that graded cards serve many more purposes. Not only is the condition of the card (99% of the time, and only when graded from PSA) without question, but it also provides an excellent holder for your card that protects it better than anything else. With the cert numbers, it provides people in the hobby a chance to size up their sets against others, as well as an easy way to track their cards online. There have been several times, late at night at my office, that I can't remember if I have a certain card in PSA 9 or PSA 10, and I can just look it up online. It is also a somewhat good way to track the population of cards. Although that is up for much debate with people cracking cards left and right trying to get higher grades on them, not to mention those which are lost or damaged in the mail (you should ask Jeff for a pic of his 86 Donruss Ryan PSA 10 he received, lol).

But anyways, after enough rambling, I think PSA probably would have only graded 5% of the cards they have today if it hadn't been for ebay (or the internet in general). If ebay hadn't come around, I'm sure some other site would have, possibly one more focused on single sports cards auctions... I would like to think that one day ebay will either wise up and seriously CRACK DOWN on all of the fraud that goes on at this site, or another site will open up and get enough attention because they monitor their members' auctions and ban people who commit fraud, unlike ebay who only notices probably 5% (and I'm probably shooting too high with that number) of fraud commited on their site.

...just my 2cents worth

boggs301012

I agree they would play a bigger role at card shows. And more dealers would have them at their table. But as most seem to agree the volume of cards sumbitted would be far less then today.

What about card prices higher or lower without ebay? I say far lower on most issues. A few could possibly command more due to the fact that the cards would be harder to find. Although the prices wouldnt go sky hi. Due to the pop report.


James

JonB

I think all card prices would be higher without ebay (period).

Everything would cost more because it would be harder to find, and when going to a show, the dealer has to make more money to cover his tables and what-not. And shops have to pay rent.

I remember when common 93 refractors (still an extremely popular set) cost around $75 or more depending. But that was because only 250 of each were printed. Now you can pick up common ungraded 93 refractors on ebay for as low as $10-$15. Even a PSA 9 copy will probably only run you about $40-60 unless someone is desperate for it. If you saw one at a show, it may be the last time you saw one of that player for a year or more. That was basically when ebay was just starting to get popular. Now, with anyone that wants to sell one, its available to the entire world. Dealers could charge more at shows because they (and the buyer) knew how rare they are.
Same thing goes with every card, limited production or not. Ebay boosts the supply by tens of thousands, and there simply isn't that much demand.

qualitycards

To add a spin on Boggsys initial post.
I think PSA has helped eBay as well. Everytime I do a PSA search about 20,000 lots come up, then add GAI & SGC to the mix. Thats a helluva lot of graded card auctions each & every week to sort through. Granted you can buy a car, PEZ dispensers, Wizard Of OZ figurines etc.. off of eBay, but 99.9% of what I look at on eBay is graded cards. So without the graded card market, I would be on eBay a few minutes each day instead of several hours daily.
Just food for thought...jay

SOM

JonB, I agree with you 100%

Fabfrank

I agree with Jon B on most of his points but I don't agree with this quote
Ebay boosts the supply by tens of thousands, and there simply isn't that much demand.

The overall supply of grade cards is there, but graded cards have increased in price despite this supply. I'm not going to argue a specific card that didn't get a bid or a card that sold for below the grading fee. I'm talking the overall price trend (vintage and modern) has edged upward despite the increase in supply. (sorry for the redundacy

Also, don't feel sorry for the card shows guys. Unless the promoters adjust there pricing card shows , which are already becoming a novelty, will go the way of the dinosaur. Ebay has become my daily card show. You can't beat the price, selection, and convenience. My experience at the recent Rothstein show went like this:
#1 Drive 1 1/2 hours to show. Pay tolls and gas and $5 to park
#2 Get to show and find out admission has been raised to $10. On top of that, the show was moved from the main hall to the basement. More money for admission, less dealers at the show. Not a good combination.
#3 Very few graded cards, lots of over graded raw. Dealers with graded cards priced above (WAY above) the market. Standing at tables waiting for dealers to finish eating or end their cell phone conversations before they acknowledge you.
#4 Being scoffed at and ridiculed by dealers because I'm inquiring about graded cards.

Bottom line, I used to attend this show religiously. This is the last time. If I want this abuse I can stay home with my wife

boggs301012

<< <i>#3 Very few graded cards, lots of over graded raw. Dealers with graded cards priced above (WAY above) the market. Standing at tables waiting for dealers to finish eating or end their cell phone conversations before they acknowledge you >>



That one really hit home. The last card show I went too seemed I was ignored. Or even worse if you can believe this. At the last card show I went to in Sept in phx bethany mall. I was at a table and decided to pick up about 30.00 in packs. Looked up to pay ....no dealer..... Looked around waited ...looked at a few more items found cheap GU or 2 waited no dealer. Placed the stuff back down and went about shopping at other tables.

And I dont think all cards would be higher in terms of price. Ebay there is the potential for more intrested parties. At a card show much less and even dealers will come down if no demand. ( smart ones) Of course the star vintage players will always be in demand. But I dont think the prices would be as high. On ebay there is a frenzy, and A dealer will list a card hoping to get XXX and after a handful of frenzied buyers are done the card exceeded the dealers expectations by 20X. My point is the card at a show would likely sell for less. Another short example a dealer could offer PSA 10 TOPPS Boggs for 30.00 at a show and get no takers. On ebay it would go for more. ( at least I would bid more)

Hope everone understands the above. I am not good at getting my thoughts and points across.

James

Wabittwax

I'm guessing that I have probably sent in around 5000 cards to PSA over the last 7 years. Without Ebay, I would probably be somewhere around 500. Back in the day, before I started selling on EBay, there was nothing worse than sending in a batch of cards and going through the long process of peddling them at dead card shows. Back then, I was very gun shy about what cards to send in. I had to ask myself if one of these mall walkers would actually shell out 10 times raw book for a card. Has anyone here ever tried selling PSA 9 1970's commons at a small show? It sucks. Nobody buys them. At least not from me. Ebay is the #1 thing that made the Registry succesful. Without ebay, collectors would have serious problems finding commons for their sets and many dealers would never submit most commons because they would be near impossible to find a buyer for.

reggie1

You're right about that. I submitted at least 1200 cards to the Teletrade auctions (PSA/Teletrade submissions mostly) from 1999-2001. If i wasn't selling them at Teletrade i probably wouldn't of graded any during that time. When Teletrade slowed down i submitted less and less . I then followed up with E-bay after Teletrade and started submitting cards again to PSA. If it wasn't for E-bay and Teletrade i would of submitted a grand total of 0 cards.

Robby

Interesting Post James ! I've been buying off of E-Bay since '99 , and I started out at a slow leisurely pace , purchasing cards that I felt needed to be relaced in my 1964 set to make it a nm/mt set ! In 2001 , I got interested in buying Psa slabs because I liked the idea of cards being authenticated with a grade standard ! Then I discovered and read about the Psa Set Registry and thought what the heck , I had about 15% of the cards slabbed already in my '64 set and registered it ! It was only then , that the set I thought was all nm/mt and would all grade out to 7's - 8's - and 9's , had alot of 6's ! Im sure many of you discovered the same thing , that the sets you owned were mint , untill you actually pulled them out of the sleeves and put them under a loupe and bright light and discovered the flaws of each card ! Since then , I've replaced those supposedly mint cards , and without E-Bay , I could not have reached the point where I'm at today ! E-BAY and the Set Registry are a perfect match for each other , for collector's and Dealer's alike ! ............Robby