Mysterious mint mark? on Frankies face, need your thoughts.

IrishMike

Let me just say this up front this coin was not photoshopped. This mark acutally appears on the coin. The first photo is the complete obverse please notice how the inverted S? stands out, the second is the photo cropped. Anyone want to venture a guess whether this is an actual mint mark or something else. Btw the coin is a pretty purple that I snagged at a local coin show this summer.

kryptonitecomics

Is the S raised or incuse???? it looks like it's sunk into the surface and not the shape of a standard S so my guess is struck through error, maybe a piece of lint or something that got on the planchet prior to striking.

The pictures leave a lot to be desired though so it's tough to tell what it is.

IrishMike

Larger picture.

numobri

Looks like the mark is from the reeding of another coin hitting your coin.IMO.

Windycity

I would agree that it looks like a mark from the reeding of another coin... but hard to tell from the pics.

IrishMike

Its difficult to tell with coin in hand.



Under a 10X loupe I can see that the mark is raised, not incused.

numobri

Gently hold another half's reeding up to your coin at about a 45 degree angle.

IrishMike

numrobi, it doesn't line up. How could reeding cause metal to be raised without the accompaning loss of metal in other areas, which there are none? Die chip?

astrorat

Interesting, but highly improbable that it is of US Mint origin, since no coins were struck in SF in 1957 (or since 1955). The likelihood of an errant S being "dropped" on the obverse die is exceedingly low. Additionally, the "S" appears to be the wrong style from the 1950's.

It is hard to tell from the photos, but is the "S" raised or incuse?

Lane

IrishMike

I know its not a misplaced mint mark and the mark is most definetly raised, I louped it with 10X and you can see the raised metal.

astrorat

Well, then if it is of US Mint origin, it has to be damage to the master die or working die. I doubt it is hub damage only because I cannot think of how such a raised shape could occur on a hub (excluding employee monkey business).

I know that you looked under a 10-power loupe, but have you looked under a stereo microscope? Sometimes small "incuse" marks are incorrectly seen as "raised" when using a single eye (i.e. no depth perception with loupes).

Lane

IrishMike

Lane its very easy to see under a loupe if you examine the coin looking edgewise that metal is raised and as a matter of fact its quite pronounced. I don't own a microscope, pix were taken with a 5 megapixel Olympus.

numobri

Mike

I could be wrong about the mark but,when I hold a piece of paper up to your first photo and mark off two of the high points from the reeding,then match up these markings with the left side of the mark on the face of your coin,they SEEM to match up.IMO What do you think?(try it)

Brian

IrishMike

Brian in theory what you suggest would work, but the mark is too small to line it up with the naked eye.

tlhoy

Looks like something struck the chin just to the right of the mark, so my guess is post mint damage.
Hard to tell with the pics.

Glenn

Makes me think of that face on Mars.

IrishMike

Glenn that was my first thought too, but the metal is piled up ontop the chin, not pushed from the surrounding areas. They are smooth.

astrorat

<< <i>Lane its very easy to see under a loupe if you examine the coin looking edgewise that metal is raised and as a matter of fact its quite pronounced. I don't own a microscope, pix were taken with a 5 megapixel Olympus. >>



No problem, from the two-dimensional images it is hard to tell just how raised the mark is.

Sticking with the US Mint error or variety theory . . . maybe it is the result of a strike through error that left damage on the die (incuse "S" on the die). If so, then it would be an interesting variety.

Lane

Shamika

<< <i> ...the mark is most definetly raised, >>


This doesn't make sense. The source of lighting comes from above the coin as you can tell by looking at the top of Ben's head which is white and the bottom of his bust which is dark. Since the lighting is coming from above, raised metal should also be white along it's top side. However, the close-up image shows a dark edge along the top of the "S" which can only result from an incused anomaly.

Therefore, I vote "strike through".

richbeat

I'm going to vote strike through with a question: could it be a small thin metal shaving (corkscrew shaped)? That would explain the "S" shape and also why it's raised.

IrishMike

Not incused, its a raised piece of metal. The lighting is due to the angle of the lamp, an anomaly as you call it.

Lakesammman

Strike through that damaged the die in the process?? Wire?? Very interesting....

Priest

If in fact it is an "s" is it possible that it may be a "Dropped Letter" from an earlier strike? As the "s" in TRUST?

Priest

To small of a "s" on the face for a dropped letter from Trust,most likely a strike through.

errormaven

Since the feature is raised, it is most likely a case of die damage. Perhaps it struck a short, twisted piece of wire. Die damage often assumes wierd shapes, and sometimes forms the simulacrum of a letter.

coppercoins

Looking at the photo, the lighting direction and the detailed inset indicate that the shape is incuse. The light comes from the top of the photo (in front of the coin) and the bottom edges of the shapre are lit. This means they were facing the light, incuse. The digits of the date, however, are shadowed on their bottoms because they are raised.

The coin was most likely damaged by another coin, shapes like this are common from bagmarked reeded edge coins. Just look around at the Morgans...lots of them have these shapes on them from bag marks.

IrishMike

For the fourth time I will state that this mark is not incused, regardless of the skill of the photographer under a loupe it is definitely raised metal. The center of the mark is indented lower than the edges of the "S". Not knowing much about the striking process I can only guess that some sort of die damage occurred or a result of a wire. Notice in this photo how the light reflects off the lower part of the "S".



Edited to add: if anyone wants to see the coin and perhaps render a better photo, I would be happy to send it to them for analysis.