What do you think of this Mantle?

MorrellMan

I did a search of CSA on these boards and got some info - if you have the time, please take a look at this card and tell me what you think.

Although I'm no expert, I have a CSA card in the old blue holder, and I've never seen this particular holder. Frankly, it doesn't look too good. I would value any expert's opinions.

Thanks.

calleocho

it looks fine to me, but im really no expert.

it has a weird cut on the left side which could be seen better from the back scan, but it looks like the edges have a little bit of roughness to them so it might be unaltered...even if it is gradable ...it will surely not grade a 9

MorrellMan

Thanks Calleocho

Here's another one. What do you think of this?

jrdolan

Sorry, not an expert, but I have handled '56 Mantles and I do have thoughts.

Why would anyone in their right mind send a legitimate, undoctored '56 Mantle to CSA instead of PSA or GAI or SGC? Even if it's only 6 or 7 in a PSA holder, it would still fetch much, much more money. Answer: It did go to one or more of the big three, and was rejected as trimmed or otherwise altered. Next stop for an ungradeable card is one of these lower-tier graders.

Even if unaltered, it looks overgraded. I recently sold a '56 Mantle GAI 8 with much better corners. As long as you realize it's actually a couple grades lower than the label claims, you might still get a deal -- because only newbies, bargain-hunters, and gamblers would buy this card. But the risk is too high for me. I just know if I pay $400 for that card thinking I'll get an $1100 PSA 7 out of it, the result will be trimming, coloring, or something else nasty. If you're a risk-taker and have money to blow, go for it. There's a small chance you'll hit the jackpot.

By the way, that dot above Mick's head? It's also on other '56 Mantles that I've handled or seen recently. So at least it's probably not a fake.

As for the GAI 9 in your second post, I don't believe that seller has the card. Only cheap modern stuff in his selling history, not great feedback, and worst of all ... "I don't know much about baseball cards." It seems most of the mint Mantles in the world are owned by people who don't know much about baseball cards!

A761506

I think the one in the CSA holder looks as if it may have been altered near the upper right corner. Looks like a file job, rather than trim the entire edge. The toughest type of alteration to catch, but you can see how the right edge, for about 3/8" down from the top edge in that corner looks very smooth in comparison to the slight rough appearance the edges have the rest of the way around the card. A good file alteration will pass by just about any weak grader, no matter what company is doing the grading.

The second one, in the GAI slab, I'd say is a scam auction where the guy does not have possession of the card, and the scan has been lifted from another auction.

MorrellMan

Thanks guys, that's the kind of feedback I'm looking for. My quest is to get a PSA 6 '56 Mantle for $400. Along that line, I'm considering some alternate ways of getting there - one of which is to look at overgraded 2nd or 3rd tier cards in the 8 or 9 range, knowing that the card may be a 6, if not altered. JR, I know there's no way to get an $1100 Mantle card for a third of the value - I'm just checking all avenues of acquisition.

jrdolan

Mark, it's an intriguing risk if you have the juice. It's basically a double-or-nothin' gamble, with the odds heavy on the nothin' side. If it's not altered, you double your money. If it's altered -- well then, like most victims you face the choice of eating it or passing the loss onto someone else. Neither is very good for the stomach ... or soul.

A final thought: If this seller thought it could be crossed to PSA, don't you think he would have tried to do so? A small investment for doubling or tripling your money. My guess is he hedged his bet and tried to cross in the holder, intending to flip it out on eBay if he failed, and PSA rejected it.

MorrellMan

Hmmm - good points, JR. I wouldn't bid on this card if I thought it might be altered; I think my original gambit was what's the deal with CSA - I figured an authentic CSA 9 card might, at best, 6 with PSA. Overgraded is fine, since I'm trying to get the card in a condition 3 grades lower. Altered is not fine, and I'm getting that CSA has a higher incidence of holdering trimmed cards than the big guys - a risk I'm not willing to take.

I guess I'll have to resolve that the only way I'm going to get a PSA 6 Mantle is to get one already holdered in PSA 6 slab.

Thanks again to everyone for their insight.

Stone193

Mark
I remember when CSA started years ago. Alan Hager (ASA fame) was selling off his copywrited 10 pt. system - sorta like a franchise thing and this was the first to come out. At the time, they were out of Ohio but as you can see, now they are in NY. I don't know if I can trust these guys any farther than I can throw them! But you can always try PSG.

your friend
Mike

Stone193

<< <i>Looks like a file job, >>


Josh
Never heard of that...can you describe the technique?

your friend
MIke

denwd1

the gai looks like its a stolen scan and the low feedback of the seller would scare me away!the 1st csa mantle, i would have to agree w/jrdolan
and ask why would anyone send a card to csa? its really old and only nm or its trimmed.

A761506

File alterations are the most difficult to detect... basically, a real good card-doctor "file off" about 1/64 or less near a corner, the card will still measure standard size, but the corner has been artificially squared, and slight chipping can be removed when it is done properly. I learned about this from talking to several graders on different occasions from GAI several months ago

MorrellMan

Does the width ratio of the Mantle card insert border look right in comparison to the exterior border?