what do you think??should psa slab doctored cards

denwd1

i think i am in the minority but i thought i'd ask. if a vintage card(pre 1941 common, pre '75 stars) is sent to psa and it was doctored,i would like them to slab it and list the problem. i have seen this often, but the card is not holdered and a scammer could substitute the real card with a fake and sell on line. if i sent in a t206 and it was colored or trimmed i would rather have it labeled as such. if i were to sell, the person looking to buy could determine if he wanted it and what to pay knowing the problem.--- i have seen the '33 goudey lajoie & t206 wagner slabbed and labeled authentic,trimmed.---but these are the only exceptions i can think of. what do you think????

nearmint

I would prefer to have any altered cards I sent in to be slabbed and marked altered. Slabbing is part of what I'm paying for, and I don't see why slabbing the cards would hurt PSA's reputation in any way. Such cards aren't completely worthless, and I'm guessing that a slabbed altered card would fetch more in an auction than a raw one I say is altered.

Mike

jrdolan

I hadn't really thought of it that way. Since you're paying for the grade even if it's doctored, why not get the slab? Just in case you want to keep the card anyway ... or even if you want to sell it. That's more honest than selling it raw and letting somebody else find out the hard way that it's trimmed or colored. And they would be assured that at least it's not a modern reprint that's beat up to look old. Knowing exactly what you're getting would add some value even to an altered card.

Of course, sleazy types can still crack it out of the holder and do their nefarious deeds. But overall it might reduce the amount of doctored and fake cards that are unwittingly bought.

stevek

One of the three major grading companies WILL do this sometime in the future, especially on pre-ww2 cards. Then the others will have to follow and do it also. The reason is that they will do it is they would make a lot of money doing it and that's what they are in business for. It only makes good sense - the pre-ww2 cards are getting so expensive that many collectors don't want a fake but would place value on a slightly trimmed card that is authentic.

denwd1

good to see that you guys are for it too. if this were labeled authentic it would be ok(except i don't know if this grading srv. could tell a reprint or not) but as is this is a joke.ebay item 5145475853

koby

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Only a desparate company would encapsulate doctored cards.

There is something special about having an old card in its original state (untrimmed, unbleached, unaltered). If PSA encapsulates anything and everything out there, IMO that would devalue all its current cards.

Allen

i have seen the '33 goudey lajoie & t206 wagner slabbed and labeled authentic,trimmed.-
that gave me chills. Who would trim such a card? Just think, the little tiny piece they cut off would be worth thousands lol. I am suprised that UD hasn't bought some of these cards and chopped them up and made puzzle pieces inserts. It is really no different than cutting up one of his bats or jerseys. Ok I have gotten off topic.

I say they should slab them marked altered. The reason they don't do it is because they make alot off these smae cards. Person 1 sends in the trimmed Mantle, comes back altered. Big suprise, they have to recoup some of their money so they sell it to person 2 who does the same thing and so on. And everytimes this happens PSA makes a few bucks. Just my conspiracy theory.

Dallas88

Gentlemen

One of our members mentioned the possibility of cracking an "altered" card and selling it as an "unaltered" version. Unfortunately there are individuals in our hobby, who would salivate at such a money-making opportunity!

How about that INK that can only be seen under UV light, MARKING a card AS AN ALTERED CARD, ON THE BACK OF THE CARD (and then slabbing it as an "altered" card - or not slabbing, depending on your taste) ---- wasn't there some guy (maybe cardcop?) who did some experiment with UV ink and grading?

This would enable us to keep track of the altered cards without diminishing the cosmetic appeal of the card. (Of course, we'd have to add the UV light to our standard screening of cards - which some '71 collectors do routinely anyways!)

It's just my opinion, but an altered card needs to somehoe be distinguished, even if it's out of the holder.

Dal

Griffins

I'd like to see it, but with a different label & holder. I guess this is already done with comic books- restored and unrestored.
For the altered card it could be graded "altered-trimmed" or "altered- recolored". I think this would keep some of the bad cards from just being passed along and sold as good cards. I had a long talk with a major PSA dealer and he's very much in favor of this as well- he thinks it will only help both collectors and dealers in the long run.
My problem with the UV labeling would be if a card was sent in and graded as "altered- trimmed". Many of us have had cards come back from PSA as evid trim that weren't, and were graded correctly the next time thru. How would you feel if you got a card back you felt was undergraded, cracked and resubmitted, and it came back "altered-trimmed" and a UV marker put on it.
A show of hands at the registry luncheon seemed to be overwhelmingly in favor of slabbing altered cards, and Joe O. seemed a bit surprised at the response. I seem to recall he indicated he would give it some thought.
I would much rather see PSA go to holdering previously ungradeable cards than switching their standards to include half point grading.

WarHoundR69

In my opinion expand the 1 to 10 Gradinig scale into the zero/negative range ie.
1. Authenic NO ALTERATIONS - PSA (0)
2. Authenic WITH ONE ALTERATION - PSA ( -1 )
3. Authentic WITH TWO ALTERATIONS ( -2 )
4. Authentic WITH THREE ALTERATIONS - PSA ( -3 ) etc.
This way a card that was just trimmed with no other doctoring could be destinguished from a card that was trimmed plus bleached plus repaired etc. No UV marking. Don't like the grade, crack it open & resubmit.
This way cards that were "ABUSED" by unscruplous individuals would still have a lower tier place in the collecting universe. At least a collector would know that the cards were authentic.
Might even create more business for PSA plus you could added the negatively graded cards to your Registry sets. Just my 2 Cents worth

A761506

I am against slabbing altered cards, with the exception of only the rarest cards, which are what PSA's current rules are today.

I don't think the hobby should attempt to create a submarket for such graded material, and I think it will cast a bad image on the hobby once you start seeing exactly how many cards come back altered, because it's not a small number. It's probably around 5-10% of all submissions.

Additionally, grading costs would have to increase, as they would now need to use far more holders. I'm certain they factor that into their profitability, as I'm sure the statistics for altered cards are relatively consistent from year to year, which would allow them to predict additional profit due to rejection of altered cards.

I don't want to see a card from 2003 that is labeled as trimmed. It's just a blatent sign of corruption in the hobby, and if enough are encapsulated, those signs will wind up being posted everywhere. Do I mind seeing a T206 Wagner or Plank in a holder that has all the borders cut off... absolutely not, that type of trimming was unlikely to be done with the intention of causing deception and making the card more valuable.

Mantlefan

I know with Comics, "restored" items are encapsulated and labelled as such. Restored cards doesn't seem like a bad idea as long as they are not allowed on the Registry.

schr1st

I'm somewhat for the idea, but there are two words to consider: mechanical errors. If PSA can't get their act together when it comes to producing error-free normal submissions, I don't know if I'd trust them to be right 100 % of the time when it comes to holdering the right card as being altered. In addition, I think it would cause a surge in cards submitted by the Mosers, etc. of the world, at a time when PSA should be discouraging rather than encouraging their submissions.

nearmint

Koby says:



<< <i>If PSA encapsulates anything and everything out there, IMO that would devalue all its current cards. >>



I think that encapsulating altered cards would increase the value of unaltered cards, if it affected their value at all. If people see cards designated as altered floating around, it will increase their awareness of altered cards. If people are more aware that altered cards are out there, it will increase their desire for cards that are certified unaltered.

A761506 says:



<< <i>I don't think the hobby should attempt to create a submarket for such graded material, and I think it will cast a bad image on the hobby once you start seeing exactly how many cards come back altered, because it's not a small number. It's probably around 5-10% of all submissions.

Additionally, grading costs would have to increase, as they would now need to use far more holders. >>



I don't think that hiding the fact that there are altered cards out there helps the hobby, do you? And I seriously doubt that PSA has a line in its business plan for the money they save in holders by not slabbing altered cards. My guess is that the only reason they don't slab altered cards is because they believe their customers don't want them slabbed. Judging by the small sample of customers in this thread, though, that might not be the case.

Mike