A tale of two PCGS Proof 1867 Seated Dollars - and a case where a PR64 might sell for more than a PR

coinguy1

I have viewed these two coins in person, and in my opinion, each looks quite a bit more attractive than portrayed in the images. But, the PR64 Cameo is an absolute stunner, AND it looks like it could go PR65. I would not be surprised if it realizes MORE than the PR65 Cameo.

What do you think of these two coins, and if you were bidding on them, what would you bid for each? I have included the current CDN price for the assigned grades (though the CDN does not take the Cameo designation into account).

I will report back (hopefully tomorrow morning) with prices realized.

1867 PCGS PR64 Cameo (CDN $4520)







1867 PCGS PR65 Cameo (CDN $9150)

mgoodm3

I like that 64CAM. That's one of my favorite grades. The rev is really nice. Looks like there's some nice color on it to. I would pay a bit more for the cam and for the nice toning. Will guess $6000 (I may be low based on the title).

The 65CAM is a bit dark for my tastes, I like to see some of the white cameo, but probably lights up at an angle. I wouldn't go as high on this one, $8500.

relayer

It's hard to tell from the dark photo - I assume it's more of a blue tone, but I like the 64CAM better

rainbowroosie

Me like 64 too!

Stuart

Mark: Based on the photos provided the PR-64 CAM appears to have much better eye appeal than the PR-65 CAM, primarily because the dark toning on the PR-65 CAM seems to obscure some of the coin's luster. This may be a figment of poor coin photography, and may not appear as such in person.

If I were bidding for these coins, based on your CDN pricing I'd add 15-20% to the CDN pricing for the PR-64 CAM with a max bid between $5200 & $5425.

I'd be much less interested in the PR-65 CAM and would likely pass on it. However, if you force me to suggest a price I would probably bid significantly UNDER CDN pricing for what I feel is an impaired proof (toning too dark)in the $7000-7500 price range.

coinguy1

Stuart, I had forgotten that the PR65 was a Cameo too - thanks for the head's up. I have edited my thread title and post to account for that fact.

Coinosaurus

The thing is, many collectors HATE dark coins regardless of how original or pristine they are. Which is why we have so much dipped out junk now. And why RD copper sells for insane premiums.

Have to admit I'd pay more for the 4, tho.

tradedollarnut

$6500 plus the juice for the 64... $8,000 plus for the 65.

From your descriptions, the coins sound like they're worth about the same. That puts the coins' worth at $7k each and the 64 holder worth -$500 and the 65 holder worth +$1,000.

morgannut2

The question is are there more hairlines on the 64 than are visable in the photos? All things being equal, with the 64 having perhaps a few more tiny marks, the 64 will bring IMO almost full 65 money and the 65 will either not, or more likely be a no sale to the reserve.

CarlWohlforth

While the grey sheet doesn't add extra for Cameo on these I do. You've seen them in hand and like the 64 better. I'm wondering if the 65 is black or if it is blue? I'd go for that one if it cost less than the 64 and was more attractive in hand, with a more vibrant blue than the image suggests..

tradedollarnut

And the answer is:

$7500 plus the juice for the 64 and $8,000 plus for the 65.

One out of two ain't bad!

CarlWohlforth

I wish I saw them in hand. I'm guessing the 65 was dull as well as dark....

goose3

if those coins were side by side with the grades covered up, would anyone here actually chose the bottom one??

I certainly would NOT.


Mark I have no idea what I would bid on each but I would only bid on the top one IF I were to bid.

tradedollarnut

if those coins were side by side with the grades covered up, would anyone here actually chose the bottom one??

I'd advise against making such statements off an image - especially a Heritage scan!


I think it goes back to a point that Andy made a while back... it's indeed possible for a nicer overall coin to be in the lower graded holder because the services treat certain collector caused impairments [such as hairlines that don't image well] more harshly than others.

cohodk

The 64 sells for 5200
The 65 sells for 8600

I guess I was late to the guessing party. I was close on the 65.

coinguy1

In reply to a few comments and questions:

My recollection is that the PR65 was (dark) blue, as opposed to black, and that the mirrors were not dull. Whatever hairlines are present on the two pieces can't really be seen in the images - that is usually the case with images of higher quality Proofs, particularly toned ones.

Kudos to TDN on his excellent commentary, analysis and prognosticating.

Bikingnut

I like them both and would have a hard time deciding between the two.