How to save a rare treasure, short of stealing it???

kryptonitecomics

Caution, this is a long true story of what happened to me today...................do not go any further unless you have some free time

Ok were to begin, I apologize if this story is long but hopefully the ending is worth it.........so today starts out like any other day..............I go to work, bust my hump and leave feeling like I didn't accomplish a darn thing.

Now what makes this day different from all the rest in say the past 7 years is what I held in my hand in my very own office. Like most of you I am always asked to look at coins and let folks know what they are worth. It is no secret that I am a collector and word of that has gotten around to the point that I am looking at coins about 2-3 times a month. I am probably not the only one that this happens too, and I find a great deal of pleasure in being of assistance to others and spreading coin knowledge to the masses.

So as you might have guessed the usual collection consists of junk silver, steel pennies, Ikes, SBA's, and dateless Buffalo nickels, heck I even posted a hoard of just such coins a few weeks back that were brought into me for appraisal.

Last week a woman in her late 50's maybe early 60's comes by my office and says she heard I was the man to see about coins. I didn't know who she was, but I told her about my collection and that I enjoyed looking at coins. After a few minutes she told me that she had a coin that belonged to her Grandfather, and that he had had for quite some time before he passed away and the coin was passed down from family member to family member.

I told her to bring the coin by, as I would love to take a look. So the week concluded and I went on a business trip to Chicago, and returned today. Right before I was set to go to lunch the nice old women walked in with a small tin box that looked to be older than she was. I didn't want to get my hopes up only to see a 1964 Kennedy half, but I started getting giddy as I worked to get the tin box open.

It was rusted shut and she told me that as far as she knew the tin had not been opened in more than 50 years. I wasn't buying the story, but I have to admit I had to use scissors to work the box open....it took me at least 10 minutes as I didn't want to damage what was inside. When the box finally opened, I saw some paper inside, but nothing more...................the writing on the paper was in pencil and I honestly could not read anything accept part of the word Auction, which looked to have been written in bold and re-written over several times.

As I removed the paper, bits of it flaked off as it was very brittle, but I felt the weight of a coin inside. As I slowly unfolded the paper the coin came into view........................................it was a
Draped Bust half dollar dated 1797

Now at the time I didn't realize the true value of the coin, as I only own 1 bust coin and it's an 1800 large cent, but I knew it was worth at least a few thousand dollars. Other than being a little darker than most of the older coins I have seen the surface was in near perfect condition, free from the usual scratches and rim bumps that I typically see on older coins. It even had a nice toning over most of the surface, than was a dark gold when held at an angle, most likely due to being wrapped in the paper for years. Not having owned a similar coin, I would guestimate the grade at around a VF on the obverse and a F-12 on the reverse as the strike looked to be stronger on the obverse than on the reverse and was certainly not even across each side. I don't know if that is typical, but with the age of the coin it did not surprise me.

After surveying the coin I quickly put it back in the paper and then back into the tin, as frankly I was afraid of dropping the coin since I knew it had to be worth some serious money. I told the women that the coin was a rare find and that if she wanted to sell the coin, I could have it certified for her and then sell it at auction for FMV. She didn't have a clue what certification was even after I explained it to her briefly, but she stated that the coin was not for sale as it was a family piece that she wanted to pass down to her only son.

I then told her that she should at least consider having the coin slabbed to insure it's preservation..............again she said that she did not want to take a chance on the coin being in someone else’s hands, and that it had survived just fine all these years in the little tin box. In one last plea I asked her if I could at least bring in a 2X2 or hard capital plastic holder for it free of charge. She thanked me for my time and said that she was going to take it back home and put it back in her closet, where it has resided for the last 15+ years.

So I am a little shaken, but I figure it's her coin so she can do what she wants with it. About an hour ago I was looking through the latest addition of coin prices and I decided to take a peak at the coins value so I could at least pass that on to her tomorrow.

The guide says the coin is worth in the neighborhood of $40,000 to $55,000 bucks


Please tell me that I am looking at the wrong price and that this is a common variety as I am only seeing 1 coin listed under the 1797 Draped Bust half dollars????

I can't frickin believe the coin is worth that much and I told her maybe a few thousand, possibly higher I am going to talk to her tomorrow and see if the actual value makes a difference to her, which I doubt, but you never know. What can I do about the storage of the coin........she doesn't seem to believe me that the current storage condition for a coin of this magnitude is just not adequate. I can't go steal the coin and holder it for her, but this is going to haunt me for the rest of my life if I do nothing.

I am also going to ask her if I can come over and take a picture of it so I can post it here.............I want some of the experts to verify it's authenticity and possibly grade for the coin, I also don't want folks to think I am making this up because frankly.......I can't believe I saw the coin myself. So bottom line......what would you do????

poorguy

Dayum,

That would be a great day in my book. Do what you said you want to do and get back to me.

I'd get it authenticated and slabbed asap. Don't let some dealer scam her out of what that coin's worth if it's the real deal either.

JrGMan2004

coinlieutenant

Nope, a small eagle half dollar is a very rare coin and very sought after since it is two year type.

Very cool. Dont you just live for stuff like that?

F117ASR

Awesome story! You don't hear that many stories like that nowadays. Just makes you wonder how much is out there. You have to tell her all you know about it. Tell her it is worth a ton and not to let a dealer buy it from her. Most of all tell her how much the coin can depreciate due to improper storage and exactly what would happen to it.

coinlieutenant

I truthfully think that the coin is just fine the way it is being stored. If it is kept dry and there was no corrosion on the coin after all these years, it will be just fine stored the same way it has been.

Dont put it in a cage!!

That being said, I would let her know a minimum wholesale price that she should not sell the coin for less. Any fair dealer for a original VF raw coin should probably pay around 30K...but I didnt check the sheets...

kryptonitecomics

I don't want to wash my hands after even touching the rim............

Another question would be.......if by some stoke of pure luck, I can convince her to actually sell the coin...................would it be right of me to ask for part of the sale as commission??? I really feel ackward about the whole thing after all it's her coin and if the coin goes to auction she is going to lose part of the sale to the auction house anyway..........I mean I know we would all like a cut on a deal worth this kind of change, but I do have morals and I guess I am just questioning the morality of actually getting paid to be the middle man...

I know I wouldn't have to take a percentage, but could rather offer my coin knowledge for a small price to make sure she gets a fair shake.......................or I could do it for free and just be happy knowing I did the right thing

100proof1957

Set up a meeting with the son and her and hope he aint a crack head !

Try and talk some sense in to them, at least get the thing in an airtight.

coinlieutenant

If you do broker the deal, there is nothing wrong with asking for a 5% commission.

I would think that the best way to do it is to find the absolute best price for the woman, and then make your money on the other side. Tell the buyer you want a 2000 finders fee.

Or, ask for a percentage of his profit...

Nothing wrong with that.

jmccarthy1983

You need quicker hands, if she never opened it you shoudl have replaced it with a kennedy half!

TommyType

I think one of the BEST things you can do for her is to make sure she has some documentation of it's worth. Photocopy or print from the internet several price guides, (including retail and wholesale). Photocopy some grading guides. And, while we know you're aren't a trained appraiser, write a quick description including your assessment of grade, and current value, and include the date, and your signature.

Why? So that in 5, 10, or 50 years from now whoever decides to sell it has some idea what to expect, and won't get ripped by the first money-grubbing-weasel to come along!

I hope you get pictures....would be cool to see!

Tom

kryptonitecomics

<< <i>You need quicker hands, if she never opened it you shoudl have replaced it with a kennedy half! >>




That's funny as she probably would not have known the difference. She stated she had never seen the coin and had no idea it was as old as it was. She didn't seem that impressed by it to tell you the truth............my wife looks the same way when I show her my new purchases

seanq

That is one helluva story. Maybe if you appeal to her sense of history, as opposed to harping on the value, you can convince her to do a better job of storing it. Tell her that she should take whatever small steps are available (be it an airtight or a slab) to preserve the coin for future generations, and oh yeah the value will be preserved too.

Should she decide to sell the coin, I agree with the post above that any cut you would be entitled to would come from the buyer. Any kind of "gratuity" for keeping her from getting screwed would be hers to offer, not yours to request.


Sean Reynolds

windwhispersintrees

I'd make sure to give her hard copy of whatever price listings you find to put with the coin, however it's stored......God forbid she suddenly dies and the son/heirs don't know what a treasure they truly have.

Bring by a free archival cointainer or what have you....that way she doesn't have to worry about the coin being away in someone else's hands to be slabbed etc. And try to educate her about the importance of maintaining the coins condition so as to preserve it's value.....don't want the son/heirs polishing it up to make it shiny!

FullStepJeffs

I feel your pain... the only things you can do are:

1. Try once more to tell her what she potentially has and that the possibility exists that maybe if she sold it, she might be able to put a grandchild through college.

2. Reitterate that throughout the possibility of time, that the coin could become damaged if it's not in plastic (I'm sure you already said that).

3. Realize that you tried to help... and sleep well.

because 4. stealing it would cause you to go to jail... since your probably the only person who really knows what the coin is... the detectives would certainly come by to "talk" to you. And unless your a professional, you'll get caught.

Just so you know... I too have a very similar story, which ended up almost exactly as your's did...

A few years ago, I was interested in a small sized 1929 National Bank Note, which Heritage was selling. The pop on the note was approximately 4 known, and the grade was basically a rag (I think VG, if I remember correctly... I'm no paper collector so please don't try to kill me over this).

The note sold on Heritage for approx. $1000... The only reason I wanted that note was because my father, who is getting older and older, actually worked in the Bank as a teenager and knew the bank president personally, who signed the notes. I told my father about the sale and he replied... "well, I know the bank president's son... I wonder if he has any." My father believes that most, if not all of the current population of these notes came from this family at some point in the past... because the bank president was well known as a hoarder of sorts.

A few months later, while visiting my father, he told me that he had talked to the bank president's son... and, of course, the individual related there were other notes (notice how I said notes, as in plural) that the individual had in his safe deposit box. I said... hey Dad... why don't you ask him if I can come over and look at them... to which I was able to go and look at them a few days later.

When I went into the man's house, he pulled out an 8X10 glassed frame picture which held 4 notes... 1 large sized note, a 1902 $10 bill, looking so crisp with signatures so nice it looked as though they were signed last week (with a total pop of 4 in the census, of which the highest is a Fine... I think), a 1929 $20 small note, not as nice as the first, and two 1929 $5 dollar National Bank Notes, probably VG to fine... pretty well used.

I actually held them all, and had the man agree to let me open the frame and take out the $10, to which I actually held it up and noticed their was one very small crease just to the left of the portrait, on the top of the bill. Otherwise, it was perfect and looked brand new. I told the man that these notes, with the right person doing some magic and getting them in the right auction, could be worth quite a bit of money.

He said Thanks, and I put them back in the 8X10 frame and I haven't seen them since.

I have no doubts that the large sized $10 would be top pop for this bank... and told him so.

A few months later, my father told me that the man found a few other notes, that he had forgotten about, all from the same bank.

I still wonder if a 20 year sentence is actually worth the crime... lol

Steve

P.S. Don't ask me what bank they were from... I'll never tell.

Wekar

Thanks for sharing the stories Shane and Steve, it's really cool to read stuff like this, makes finding the 1 decent thread per page on this board worthwhile.

These stories make me want to start telling everyone I collect coins in the hopes someone would come to me with something cool to be the first non family member in generation(s) to see. As I don't yet own "home protection", I just can't bring myself to advertise I collect, even though I don't really have much worth a thiefs time, especially outside of the bank, still... no reason to have some punk think I do.

DMWJR

<< <i>Nope, a small eagle half dollar is a very rare coin and very sought after since it is two year type.

Very cool. Dont you just live for stuff like that? >>



I live for her forking it over!

clackamas

<< <i>I think one of the BEST things you can do for her is to make sure she has some documentation of it's worth. Photocopy or print from the internet several price guides, (including retail and wholesale). Photocopy some grading guides. And, while we know you're aren't a trained appraiser, write a quick description including your assessment of grade, and current value, and include the date, and your signature.

Why? So that in 5, 10, or 50 years from now whoever decides to sell it has some idea what to expect, and won't get ripped by the first money-grubbing-weasel to come along!

I hope you get pictures....would be cool to see!

Tom >>



Took the word right out of my mouth. Even if she does not sell it you need to help whomever does not get pinched hard. I wonder if she really did have an idea that the coin was worth way more than a few $K and now she does not trust you??

jonesy

Take a couple of slabs and let her see for herself. That should sell her.

Conder101

I like what TommyType said. Give her a current printed price listing with her coin HIGHLIGHTED on it and a letter describing proper care and handling instructions with the cavet that Any damage or CLEANING of the coin will result in a SIGNIFICANT drop in the value of the coin!!! Make sure your contact information is on the letter. And tell her to put them IN THE BOX with the coin. And tell her to keep the box in a cool dry environment as that will help protect the coin from damage. Do not pressure her anymore about selling it or reholdering it. You'll just make her suspicious of you. Just explain that the note will help the next person who gets it know how to protect the coin and give them some information about its value.

kryptonitecomics

Just found out she is out of town on Vacation so I will have to speak with her when she get's back. I am going to provide he with a price guide and a decent holder as you guys mentioned and then I will probably print something out on line about proper coin care including, the warning about cleaning it!!!

BigE

I have run into the same situation when dealing with some old hoards The people always ask when you suggest certification "how do I know if they will send me the same coin back". Often they fall prey later on to some fast talker. They just don't know enough about the hobby and are afraid of maknig a mistake------------------BigE

khayse

What a great story.

The funny thing about having a family treasure that you wouldn't be willing to sell is that most families
have this but it turns out 99.99% of them are talking about a common date Morgan.

-KHayse

TomB

The coin is extremely scarce and worth more than $50,000 in problem-free VF. Give her a hard copy of the price, educate her on the importance of keeping the coin undamaged and original and make certain that she keeps the hard copy of the value and importance of the coin with the coin. There is no reason for her to sell if she doesn't want to.

Shamika

After telling her what the fair market value is for the coin, offer to buy it from her for $5,000. If she accepts your offer, it means she didn't believe you in the first place. If she is not interested in selling it, point out to her how dramatic the value can drop if the coin were ever scratched or seriously dinged (from a drop) and thus she would be protecting the value of the coin if certified.

If she still won't budge, warn her of the perils of having the coin cleaned and suggest that she include a note with the coin informing any future heirs as such. Otherwise, if something tragic were to befall her, you can bet the first person that finds the coin will polish that sucker ASAP.

Heywood

As far as her concern about a swith, Are you in an area where she could get a walk through certification at a show?

SlangNRox

Did you tell her not the clean them when you first talked to her?

jonesy

Any updates??