Grading Proof Coins

Shooter63

Specifically Washington Quarters, I was wondering if someone could explain what to look for when grading Proof coins. I have looked at PR 65 to PR 69 and can hardly tell the difference. Then I would also like to know how the grading services (PCGS) determines what is a Cameo and what is a Deep Cameo. Please help me solve this mystery. If you can't, can someone tell me where I can educate myself through a website or a book to better educate myself? Thanks.

magikbilly

Hi,
WELCOME
Have you read the PCGS grading guide? The first edition had pretty good large color photographs of coins in PR61, 62, 63, 64 etc..
Also, try the ANA guide and the NGC guide.

Best,
Billy

cladking

You may need to just look at a lot of different coins before you can spot it. Start with something
"easy" like 1959 or 1969. The spread in quality is much wider on some dates than on others. Coins
like '84-S quarters are much harder to learn the differences because these differences are much less.
Cameo should be as white, frosty, and complete as possible to get the designation. The best cameo
will change the entire look of the coin.

Like all coins the finest proofs have all of their attributes among the best for the date.

Try to find a stack of nice original proof sets and just sit down to study them. Even if you're lucky and
the entire range of quality is present it may take a little time or help to see all the differences. One thing
that makes it easier is that the coins with the finest strikes or which are cleanest or frostiest will very of-
ten have all of these attributes.

kranky

One of the biggest factors in grading proofs is hairlines. They are very light scratches which can be difficult to see unless you are properly rotating the coin under a light. If you aren't seeing hairlines that are on the coin, that could be one reason that you aren't seeing much of a difference between grades. What type of light are you using?

Do you have a dealer who you work with who could help you learn how to pick up hairlines?

DHeath

Some generalizations about cameo/deep cameo designation that I find useful involve the color test. If the devices look uniformly silver to you against well mirrored fields (no breaks in the frost), it's a cameo. If the devices look uniformly white against well mirrored fields, it's deep cameo. If the mirrors are not deep, it may get neither designation. Sometimes coins which have fully white devices and great contrast have cloudy or satiny fields, and get no designation. Browse some of the online auctions, and I expect that description will make some sense. Good luck.

fivecents

What Kranky said.

The difference between PR69 and PR65 should be hairlines on the PR65 coin. The trick is to mainly look for the hairlines in the mirrored fields instead of on the devices.

LeeG

Rick Tomaska's Book is your #1 resource for Cameo's. I own a copy. Heres a couple links for you:

Book On Cameo Coins


Cameo & Deep Cameo



Good Luck in your collecting future!!!! Lee

CarlWohlforth

To spot hairlines I use a halogen lamp. I tilt the quarter in all directions and look at both sides. Hairlines are tiny scratches. The coin may have been wiped with a cloth or scraped against something. Often the hairlines can only be seen under a bright light only from one angle. A coin would have noticeable hairlines or even a contact mark or two to grade 65.

The difference between a 67 and 69 is often the quality of the fields. A 69 will have perfect mirror like fields. The 67 often will not reflect light as perfectly.

The very first coins minted from fresh dies have the most frosting on the devices. If the planchets are highly polished you get a deep cameo coin. As each coin gets minted the dies wear down. After enough coins the dies produce brilliant coins with no frosting at all. So there is not just one state called Cameo, rather a coin can be anywhere from not frosted at all to super duper extra frosty. The services draw a line and call coins under that line brilliant and over that line cameo.

Once you can see the difference between 65, 67 and 69 let us know and we can talk about 66 and 68.

DHeath

The coin below is MS, not proof, but it might help explain hairlines. In the pic at the left, they're invisible. When rotated properly under the right lighting, they're apparent. Easy to miss at a casual glance.

Shooter63

Thank you the information, I think I will buy a book and continue my research further. Again thanks for the information.

ksteelheader

I use a tensor light when checking for hairlines. It really makes them standout. It is also great for seeing some hairlining on coins still in the cello packs!!


Edited for spelling! Thanks Billy!

Russ

Click here for another thread.

Example of hairlines:



It's the same coin.

Russ, NCNE

ksteelheader

<< <i>Example of hairlines: >>




Wow! Smoeone used some mighty big hairs on that one!!!