Two 1795 Flowing Hair Dollars: Grades Posted; Thanks for Your Opinions
ER
Posts: 7,345 ✭
Coin #1 (not mine)
Coin #2 (mine)
Coin #2 (mine)
0
Comments
Bottom one: $$
Or I'll just wag:
VF-30/35
VF-20
Changed my mind.
******
First one is PCGS 55
Second one is PCGS 53 or NGC 55.
The additional luster on the first one gets the higher PCGS grade.
PM me with answer.
Bottom - EF40
Top = XF45
bottom = XF40
BTW that bottom coin is just (Tyler makes a gesture like an Italian guy kissing fingers and proclaiming Bellisima!!) a treat to my tired, jaded numismatic eyes.
and it's really two different coins?
they look remarkably similar, and the lighting might make them look different.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Same coin, different holders, different lighting? Looks EF45 to me either way, so is that mark behind the head a die feature of the variety?
and it's really two different coins?
they look remarkably similar, and the lighting might make them look different. >>
Baley,
They are different coins, and the die line behind the hair tells you its the BB-27 variety.
Also, the first coin has lots of adjustment marks on the obverse bottom.
ok, I actually like the bottom coin better, and will say EF40 on top and EF45 on the bottom, though I could be 5 points off on either or both.
(I don't think either one is less than 35 or more than 50)
both super nice coins and yes, I agree with those who said $$$$$$
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Bottom-40
I hope I'm close, I own one of these in VF-30.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Bottom (NGC) XF45
Here is my(former) 1795 dollar, part of a US type set I sold last year:
Coin #2: XF45
I like the looks of #2 better, but guessing the grade might be a tad lower. Same reason an AU58 is sometimes better than a MS62.
And, I think Coin #2 is in an ANACS holder
42/92
ER #2 the lower one is a great example of an EF-40
XF40
NGC(?) EF-45
And rays - thanks for sharing that 1795 dollar! Must've been tough to let that go, but hopefully you were compensated enough to relieve th'pain at least a little.
Bt technical grading/ANA standards from 1988:
Top EF-45
Bottom VF-35
By today's PCGS standards
Top EF-45
Bottom EF-40
By today's NGC standards
Top AU-50
Bottom EF-45
Both are nice coins beyond my means.
Coin#1 PCGS AU55 (Laibstain's)
Coin#2 NGC XF40 (mine)
Coin#3 PCGS AU58 (Cardinal's)
Coin#3 is just oh so close to mint state. The only wear noticeable to me is maybe on Liberty's cheek. Other than that, the hair details are there, the stars' central details are all there. The eagle's details are all there with the breast feathers typically weakly struck (no wear).
Coin#1, I do NOT agree is AU55; 50-53 max but not 55. There are more wears on the cheek and hair; the stars' central details are still there with only trace of wear; there's also trace of wear on the eagle breast feather. All the wings' details are there.
Coin#2, I think should be at least a 45. It just barely has a little more wears than coin#1.
I hope Cardinal can chime in and teach us about early dollars.
Billy
I think all three coins look great.
I just bought a 1795 pcgs 45 flowing hair dollar.
The coin I bought has the luster in the wreath on the reverse like coin #1,but the wear and color of coin #2.
I read the posts first but,was thinking; Coin #1 AU 50,coin #2 XF 40.
I kinda like the looks of coin #1 better then coin #3,but I'd take coin #3.
Brian
clean fields and somewhat cameo from the pic
PF55
No way is that a 55 especially when compared to the 58.
Your coin is very nice and original looking. I actually prefer it to the 55.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I have resigned myself to the fact that, at today's prices, it's not very feasible for me to consider pursuing coins of this caliber. Oh well!
ER, I had said EF-45 on your coin. Very lovely example. The first coin has been cleaned, whereas your coin looks more original.
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Here's the specimen currently in my set (replacing the AU58 coin) -- it's graded by PCGS as MS62:
This specimen shows no wear, but it's most notable feature is the strong strike, providing full rounded hair detail and visible breast feathers, which is very unusual for a 1795 B-5, BB-27 dollar.
I have seen in person the first coin listed by ER. Clearly the coin was dipped at one time, and perhaps lightly cleaned. The lightly toned surfaces show the handling marks and field rub commonly seen on AU coins. In person, the fields show very strong luster validating the AU grade, but that doesn't really come through in the image.
What makes the comparison most difficult is the difference is strike between Coin #1 and Coin #2. Coin #1 has a noticeably weaker strike that Coin #2. If you compare the boldness of relief of the hair details rising above the adjacent fields, you will clearly see there is less wear on Coin #1. The lower relief of Coin #2 could only be caused by wear, since the inner hair details are so strong.
To my eye, the image of Coin #2 shows light, but noticeable, wear across most of the surfaces. The strong strike leaves enough of the finer details to suggest an AU grade, but the degree of wear and reduction in luster limit the grade to XF. In my mind, it seems as likely candidate for an XF-45 grade.
Notice how Elwood's coin shows more hair detail than ER's, but less wing detail? That too is symptomatic of the die varieties. Elwood's coin is the B-1, BB-21 variety. Grade for grade, the typical specimen of BB-21 will always show more hair detail and less wing detail than the typical BB-27. For the flowing hair dollars, one really does need to consider the variety in evaluating the grade.
I would like to add that in buying these coins it is critical that you view the coins in hand and that you go by eye appeal. These coins were all poorly manufactured and noneof them possess truly good luster. Consequently, it is darn near impossible to image a great FH dollar and capture its luster adequately. Having the coin in hand and with a good light source will allow you to see the delicate iridescence on the fields.
And, with such a miniscule difference in detail between big grade ranges, it is critical that you focus on the "look" or eye appeal of the coin you're considering purchasing.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Notice how Elwood's coin shows more hair detail than ER's, but less wing detail? That too is symptomatic of the die varieties. Elwood's coin is the B-1, BB-21 variety. Grade for grade, the typical specimen of BB-21 will always show more hair detail and less wing detail than the typical BB-27. For the flowing hair dollars, one really does need to consider the variety in evaluating the grade. >>
In Redbook lingo the 2-Leaf vs the 3-Leaf Variety
3-Leaf: Strong Reverse, Weaker Obv.
2-Leaf: Strong Obv., Weak Reverse
I tend to prefer the the 2-Leaf Var. (obv well struck) because this is the side of the coin you normally look at the most. Although I like breast feathers on a Flowing Hair or Draped Bust Small Eagle Dollar.