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A look at the Bonds transformation

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  • Thanks for the link Kobe - it shows a guy who got bigger every year - what's your point?
  • wow noclass, not hard to see how you got that name .

    umm, let me see. Just figured with all the news thats going on that perhaps someone, maybe even a younger person on here who dosen't know or remember what the man looked like back then would be interested in seeing.

    P.S Thanks for your post noclass- it shows a guy who can't get one line out without editing - whats YOUR point

    later Morales !

  • Don't get your panties in a bunch - Just having some fun.


    But really what does that link show, Barry got bigger every year? What does that proove? - He didn't jump 65 lbs one year and then got smaller (ie: Giambi & McGuire)

    Look there's not much doubt that Bonds did something with Steroids, Growth Hormones or both but I hate when people say "see look how little he used to be" and try to pass that off as proof that he took steroids. Bonds should be the case study for steroids, the guy has built up slowly remained healthy and has dominated the sport for a number of years in a time when a large percentage of players are taking some kind of enhancing drug. Possessing the power hitting, decent BA and 500 stolen bases. Again all this without his body collapsing like Canseco, Camminitti, McGuire, Giambi, etc.

    After saying all that if Bonds did take steroids all his numbers are then tainted and should reflect that in the Baseball Historical books! I would like to know what percentage of MLB players are also guilty. And if those numbers are in the 60% then do we throw out all the numbers compilled in the last 10 years?





  • << <i>Thanks for the link Kobe - it shows a guy who got bigger every year - what's your point? >>

    exactly.

    and Steriods had NOTHING to do with his
    God given abilty to hit a 100 mph fast ball or curve!

    Here is a link for You Kobecolloser:
    SWING
    imageimage
  • kuhlmannkuhlmann Posts: 3,326 ✭✭
    Looking at that thread of pictures. it seems the man put on 5-10 pounds a year which if you ever worked out that is normal. not like he jumped 40 pounds in one season. I hate bonds but that thread doesnt prove to me he did anything wrong, if that what espn and mlb are banking on to tarnish his legacy they better come up with a better ploy.
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i> it seems the man put on 5-10 pounds a year which if you ever worked out that is normal. >>



    its easy

    ·p_A·
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kobe
    Maybe his head didn't get bigger...just a smaller helmet.

    image
    Mike
  • You should see MY growth over the same period (head included) imageimage.

  • His face got so bloated and his extremities got more muscular. One picture showed his muscular forearm with dialted veins.

    There was a magazine article, think was in GQ couple of years ago, about how a person looks like with and without steroids (forearm, arms legs, thighs, face).


    may be able to tell if he's just wearing shorts.


    with roids you can turn flyballs into homeruns. of course you need to have good hand-eye coordination to hit the ball. I don't think you get benefits from roids (in baseball) without a good hand-eye coordination.


    Anyway, he did admit to the grant jury that he (unknowingly??? ... hmm) applied the cream and took the clear given by his trainer (childhood friend).














    RIP Snow


  • << <i>of course you need to have good hand-eye coordination to hit the ball. I don't think you get benefits from roids (in baseball) without a good hand-eye coordination. >>

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/bonds/flash.htm
    imageimage


  • << <i> if that what espn and mlb are banking on to tarnish his legacy >>



    Actually he did that himself. He is a disgrace - ban him from the sport.
    image

    4000000 displaced Iraqi refugees * 655000 Iraqi deaths *
    4047 dead servicemen * 27104 wounded servicemen *
    Billions of dollars wasted ....

    image


  • << <i>He is a disgrace - ban him from the sport. >>

    for what exactly?

    Accidently using steroidal products?

    seems a bit stiff of a penalty for admitting that you
    were being tricked by your trainer.






    Fact is, you might THINK that he is lying,
    but there is no proof he is lying.
    and they are not going to kick him or Sheffield
    out of the game for admitting doing something
    that they say they did not even realize were steriods.
    imageimage
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    In addition to being an ingrate and disgrace, I never realized he was also so stupid --- as suggested. What a dope!! Or should I say doper.
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!


  • << <i>

    << <i>of course you need to have good hand-eye coordination to hit the ball. I don't think you get benefits from roids (in baseball) without a good hand-eye coordination. >>

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/bonds/flash.htm >>




    If he don't strikeout a lot he has good hand-eye coordination. With roids, THG, clear or cream, hgh (whatever they call it) you have more power to hit the ball hard or to drive the ball out of the park instead of getting always flyballs to RF, CF, LF. The slideshow doesn't make sense even with those frame by frame analysis because he's loaded with performance enhancing substance -- he got extra power to easily whack the ball out of the ballpark (even if that pitch was clock at 150mph). Let's say he has a real good hand-eye coordination (that can hit 150 mph curve/fast ball) without roids that HR might be just a flyball (no extra power to drive the ball out of the park).

    Mark Mcguire took andro to hit 70.

    I don't think Bonds doesn't know what he's taking.




    RIP Snow


  • << <i>The slideshow doesn't make sense even with those frame by frame analysis because he's loaded with performance enhancing substance -- he got extra power to easily whack the ball out of the ballpark. >>

    You missed the point of the slide show.

    All the "roids" in the world will not help
    him MAKE CONTACT WITH THE BALL
    or Perfect that AMAZING swing
    anymore than they could help Tiger wood's swing...

    You need to watch it again.
    imageimage


  • << <i>

    << <i>The slideshow doesn't make sense even with those frame by frame analysis because he's loaded with performance enhancing substance -- he got extra power to easily whack the ball out of the ballpark. >>

    You missed the point of the slide show.

    All the "roids" in the world will not help
    him MAKE CONTACT WITH THE BALL
    or Perfect that AMAZING swing
    anymore than they could help Tiger wood's swing...

    You need to watch it again. >>




    I didn't said roids helped him made contact with the ball (or improve his hand-eye coordination). What I mean is, to benefit from roids one has to have a good H-E coordination (you can hit the ball, true, but without roids it will be harder to drive the ball out of the ballpark because you don't have extra power) That's the benefit a player (with good H-E) gets from taking roids. So Bonds benefited from roids. He can turn flyballs into HRs because of that extra power.

    Let's say he has good hand-eye coordination and has that perfect swing. With the help of roids to have that extra power, he can drive the ball out of the ballpark with no sweat. A perfect swing doesn't mean you can drive that ball out of the ballpark (a BB player can swing perfectly but cannot drive that ball out --> have a perfect swing and lack power).











    RIP Snow
  • Ed62Ed62 Posts: 857 ✭✭
    Actually it is well-documented that supplemental HGH improves eyesight and reaction times in middle-aged men.
    Ed


  • << <i>Actually it is well-documented that supplemental HGH improves eyesight and reaction times in middle-aged men. >>

    really?
    Where is this documentation?

    I would LOVE to see this.
    imageimage
  • Steroids DOES improve one of the most important elements of hitting, bat speed. Yes, he has great natural ability. Yes, he has great mechanics. Yes, he has great hand-eye co-ordination. But without bat speed, all of those talents are greatly diminished. Barry took steroids to keep his amazing bat speed from diminishing as quickly over time.
  • aconteaconte Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭
    BKAH,

    Don't be a dummy. Steriods do help you at the plate. It is illegal and a form of cheating.

    Bonds has admited to this.

    Are you too dense to realize Bonds has cheated? To what extent is not known. But this whole
    dark cloud has tainted his career forever. And that is sad for his fans like you. I would sell your
    Barry pj's right away. Put them up on ebay and get that $2.99 to help pay for your next big mac.
    I think you could even splurge and get the Sponge Bob watch too. It would make a great Christmas
    present for me!

    aconte
  • "Ignorance of the law excuses no man."

    Bonds' supporters need to pull their heads out of the sand ...
  • khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336
    >Thanks for the link Kobe - it shows a guy who got bigger every year - what's your point?

    Gee, what's his point? What's his point? I wonder what his point could be?

    THAT MR POTATO HEAD IS A 'ROIDS MASTER!!!!

    image

    -KHayse
  • theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭



    << <i>So Bonds benefited from roids. He can turn flyballs into HRs because of that extra power. >>



    The most astounding number to come out of the Barry Bonds steroid controversy is from Stats Inc., which reports that Bonds had never hit a home run longer than 450 feet before the 2000 season, when he turned 36. Since then, he's hit at least 21 homers of 450 feet or farther.
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey


  • << <i>

    << <i> it seems the man put on 5-10 pounds a year which if you ever worked out that is normal. >>



    its easy >>



    No it isn't. To put on 5-10 pounds of lean muscle per year is easier when you first start working out and are younger. As you get older and more into your workout regime, it gets a lot harder. Your body adaptation makes it much harder to consistently put on 5-10 pounds of lean muscle every year and as you get older your testosterone levels fall off and your metabolism slows down making it much easier to store fat and much harder to store muscle. This is why even the best bodybuilders who take steroids when they are older don't look as sharp as they did when they were younger.

    In conclusion, it is very difficult to naturally sustain that amount of annual muscle gain.


    image

    Remember these Chuck Norris Facts

    1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
    2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
    3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris


  • << <i>Steriods do help you at the plate. It is illegal and a form of cheating.

    Bonds has admited to this. >>

    Really?!
    when and where did Bonds "admit"
    that Steriods help you at the plate?


    (and by the way,
    I am not sure that his or anyone else's
    opinions about whether or not Steriods
    is cheating has ever been questioned...
    He has never said steriod use was not cheating.)


    imageimage


  • << <i>Actually it is well-documented that supplemental HGH improves eyesight and reaction times in middle-aged men. >>

    I am STILL waiting on this "phantom" documentation?

    I can't wait to see this
    imageimage
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    image
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!


  • << <i>Steriods do help you at the plate. It is illegal and a form of cheating.

    Bonds has admited to this. >>

    Really?!
    when and where did Bonds "admit"
    that Steriods help you at the plate?


    (and by the way,
    I am not sure that his or anyone else's
    opinions about whether or not Steriods
    is cheating has ever been questioned...
    He has never said steriod use was not cheating.)



    image
    imageimage
  • << Don't get your panties in a bunch - Just having some fun. >>

    noclass, sorry bud but i was working on 2 hours sleep and woke up with a major hangover lol . I was cranky to say the least
  • There seems to be 2 arguments:

    1) Did Bonds know he was taking steroids?
    2) Does steroid help?

    Point #2: If steroid doesn't help, then why do baseball players take them??? Why does Jiambi take steroid (knowingly)? Steroid may not help someone's hand/eye coordination, but it does help the player hit the ball harder and further. I would say that Home Run is the only record tainted by steroid. If someone breaks DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak record and is on roids, then I will say "it didn't make much of a difference". I haven't seen the usatoday post that was discussed earlier, but I doubt if it can convince me that steroid doesn't help make a ball travel further, and I don't mean just 10/20 feet.

    Point #1: That can be debated forever. I think Bonds knew it was steroid (personal opinion) as much as Pete Rose knew he bet on baseball all along.
    Fred


  • << <i>There seems to be 2 arguments:

    1) Did Bonds know he was taking steroids?
    2) Does steroid help?

    Point #2: If steroid doesn't help, then why do baseball players take them??? Why does Jiambi take steroid (knowingly)? Steroid may not help someone's hand/eye coordination, but it does help the player hit the ball harder and further. I would say that Home Run is the only record tainted by steroid. If someone breaks DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak record and is on roids, then I will say "it didn't make much of a difference". I haven't seen the usatoday post that was discussed earlier, but I doubt if it can convince me that steroid doesn't help make a ball travel further, and I don't mean just 10/20 feet.

    Point #1: That can be debated forever. I think Bonds knew it was steroid (personal opinion) as much as Pete Rose knew he bet on baseball all along. >>



    #2. Without a doubt.
    #1. This is a guy who would not eat his chicken until it was broiled/grilled to perfection. This a guy who was so picky about his food that he hired a 24/7 personal chef. This is a guy who was so picky about his workout regime that he had to work out at certain times of each day no matter what (even if it meant leaving his team). He hired a personal trainer essentially 24/7 to make sure he worked out when he did. And you expect me to believe that a guy this picky about his body and workouts would accept a creme from his trainer without asking questions and then claiming ignorance? Pleeezzzeee!!

    Still think Barry is one of the best ever.
    image

    Remember these Chuck Norris Facts

    1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
    2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
    3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
  • Steroids do increase vision. Steroids do make one swing the bat faster. Bonds relies on standing right on top of the plate, waiting to see the ball at the last second, and providing a short POWERFUL QUICK stroke, so it certainly helps.

    Only a fool would deny that he was on the juice.

    People are blowing out of proportion how much it actually helps though. It may have helped Bonds, by early estimates, about 10% if he had not been on the juice. There are other factors that made it easier to dominate his league, and obviously other factors that make hitting easier in this live ball era. But then consider that pitchers were also on juice too, so that may have leveled the benefit a little more.

    Even with Bonds proven on juice, it would only knock him down a few pegs on the all-time pecking order. I'm waiting to see what the results of my study will do to Bond's and others' all time rankings, that hail from this easiest time in history to dominate a league. That doesn't even include any steroid talk. That may take up to a year to complete however.

    Bonds threw up a few years in the early 90's that were pretty darn special, those cannot be ignored.

    BKAH, your hero is still pretty darn outstanding in my book, but don't be a fool and deny the painfully obvious.


  • << <i>BKAH, your hero is still pretty darn outstanding in my book, but don't be a fool and deny the painfully obvious. >>

    I never denied anything,
    I just am not as fast
    to condemn a man and call for his head
    until we have the facts.

    the ones gunning for him, have done so
    way before there was anything at all.

    imageimage
  • image
    image


  • << <i>

    << <i>BKAH, your hero is still pretty darn outstanding in my book, but don't be a fool and deny the painfully obvious. >>

    I never denied anything,
    I just am not as fast
    to condemn a man and call for his head
    until we have the facts.

    the ones gunning for him, have done so
    way before there was anything at all. >>

    We DO HAVE THE FACTS. He told Federal Prosecuters at a Grand Jury Hearing that he TOOK STEROIDS...but he did not know they were steroids. Knowingly or not, HE TOOK THEM! They were in his body. Add that with EVERYTHING ELSE (Montgomery calling him out saying he took steroids, Sheffield saying Bonds gave him steroids, and others implicating Bonds).....there is no denying any of this anymore. Right now it's a matter of believing his story about "not knowing" or not believing it, which most people don't.....people are not that stupid. Everyone generally gave Bonds the benefit of the doubt until now (even though it was obvious before).

    This whole thing about being implicated by other people close to the situation, etc. This is all the SAME SORT OF stuff that got Pete Rose banned from baseball. He was implicated by all kinds of guys who were running in his circle during his gambling days.

    No difference here now. One gambled and got caught, the other one took steroids and other "enhancers" and human growth drugs.

    I have noticed that the only people around here who usually defend Bonds and play the whole "he is innocent until proven guilty" game are people who are tied up with all of his baseball cards and have a vested interest in believing he is innocent (even though he has now admitted it) and convincing others of his innocence.

    Atleast GIAMBI came out like a MAN and fully 100% admitted it unlike BALCO Bonds who says "I did it..BUT......not my fault, didn't know...yadda yadda yadda...." - What else do we expect him to say the season before he may break the biggest record in all of sports and everyone now recognizes him as a big CHEATER. His lawyer is clever. Say you did it...but you didn't know.

    Believe what you want, but the facts are Barry Bonds took steroids. Period.
  • One more interesting point I got out of the Washington Post.

    There are people here who are saying that the steroids did not help him much.

    From 1986 to 1997 Barry Bonds did not hit a single homerun greater than 460 feet.

    From 1998 to 2004 (The EXACT TIME Anderson became his personal trainer) he hit 21 homeruns greater than 460 feet.

    So as he got older (and most players start a decline in power and health), he doubled in size and started doing things he was NEVER capable of doing in his prime the previous 12 years.

    Plus when the experts discuss this stuff on TV or Talk Radio they always have some chemist on there that talks about how steroids can increase not only your muscle and power output, but also your hand and eye coordination and your speed (which is why so many track & field stars use this stuff).

    They had a ton of other numbers showing the amazing feats Bonds accomplished all from 1998 to the present day, all with Greg Anderson as his personal trainer giving him all of the juice he needed to succeed.

    So anyone who thinks that it helped Bonds just a "little bit" is greatly mistaken.

    If it would not help him, he would not have used the stuff. You can count on that.

    He knew it worked, he saw the difference within one season and he surely saw the difference in 2001, as well as the rest of us when he blasted 73 homeruns and had never even hit 50 before that.
  • Interesting that we also debate whether steroid does improve eye sight and reflex. When Bonds was breaking the HR record in 2001, and was asked "how" he is doing it by the media, the commentators on ESPN stated that his answer was "I'm seeing the ball better."

    Fred
  • DirtyHarryDirtyHarry Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭
    I think it will interesting to see, assuming he continues to play, if Bonds exhibits any reduction in mass (ala Giambi) over the next 6-18 months.

    I think he is missing a business opportunity to put his name on a potato topping. "Barry's cream 'n chives." image
    Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Bonds is a joke.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards


  • << <i>Bonds is a joke. >>

    image

    imageimage
  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    It looks as if Barry is laughing at all of us .... the game, the fans, the media, and the undying support of some BKAH named Jeff.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if not for the 73 HR season, his numbers consistantly go up and level off in the 40's for dingers. Not so suspect without the 73.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

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