does psa/dna charge to verify their own authentication?

duner

i bought a signed nagurski photo on ebay a couple weeks ago. when it arrived it had a psa/dna letter, but there was no sticker or anything linking the coa with the item? it seemed really odd, anybody could just use that letter with a counterfeit signature. with a good copy machine you could even just make a copy of the letter too. will psa/dna charge me another authentication fee ($75) to tell me whether they actually authenticated the item the first time?

I've seen numerous times psa has done this....like giving a single coa for a lot of 50+ autographs. this stuff really makes me wonder if they've gotten in over their heads just to make a few extra bucks.

pandrews

read this guys auction..

jrdolan

pandrews, any auction that includes the phrases "we don't know much about cards" and "allegedly authenticated" makes me think two or three times before bidding. Basically they're saying: "Take your chances and don't come whining to us if it's fake."

denwd1

i have bought auto's and like you said, the letter usually states its part of a lot of auto's including.....(and it's a copy)but i would think an item like yours should have their seal on it. this seems a little fishy to me. and yes i think they are in over their heads. they are THE experts. and as far as this hobby goes their word is gold: i do believe they arevery,very good. was this on your item null i would believe that maris signed card is authentic. it is very nice!

boggs301012

I have several cards that came with a letter. If I want them graded I have to send them back to PSA/DNA and pay again. Sad but true. So if you want them authenticated yes you will have to $$$$


JAmes

pandrews

Yeah, i believe the Maris card is authentic (BTW - i'm not the buyer or seller; i just had it on my watch list)..

I was just pointing out the auction because of how the seller is expressing his opinion about authenticating "lots".. although this particular auction doesnt even mention a copy of a "letter" of authenticity or anything..

denwd1

------check out his ABOUT ME page for more ON THE AUTOGRAPH INDUSTRY-----he is right

crsportscards33

PA, the guy sure seems to know alot about PSA and the whole process for knowing nothing about cards.

Raymond

Yeah. I bought a bunch of signed Gold HOF postcards that came from a larger lot that the seller was breaking up. Came with an LOA for the lot by PSA/DNA. When they do this, there is no serial number, no sticker, no invisible seal and no way to link the LOA and the item. If you submit the card and the LOA, you can pay a reduced fee to get the full COA, number, sticker, seal, etc. But even PSA/DNA can't link the item and the LOA.

Anyways, I submited all the cards for the "Great Combination" offer (so they could be slabbed and have unique serial numbers). One of the authenticated auto's came back as a fake. Interestingly, it was one of the CHEAPEST in the lot (Rube Marquard). I informed the seller and he refunded my money. I do feel that this was an honest dealer and that he didn't swap the auto.

So, it makes a few points:

1) PSA/DNA certification is rendering an opinion. They have some expertise, but can make mistakes and they were not there when the item was signed. Best option is to be there when the item is signed. Second, buy from a reputable company (Steiners, UD, Topps etc) that was present for the signing and states it's genuine. Failing these options, 3rd party authentification (along with your own research) is the only reasonable option.

2) LOA's are useless garbage. PSA/DNA needs to find a way to link the item to the LOA. They should be able to tell without re-examining the item if they have previously authenticated

3) For cards, checks, cuts, 3X5's etc, I think that Great Combination is the way to go. Tamper proof, serial numbers from PSA and PSA/DNA, protects the item, and only $20.

4) At this point in time, I feel that PSA/DNA is the best known and legitamate authentification firm on the market. They are known nationwide. If I get something authenticated by the best forensics handwriting expert in the region, it means nothing to the guy I'm selling it to in Texas. I think they are good enough at what they do to respect their opinions, but recognising that it certainly is not foolproof...

denwd1

beautiful clemente autograph. i would think his would be really hard to forge!

schr1st

I've purchased many cards and lots from the person selling the Maris, and will do so again. I guess that Curtis just got tired of having his customers complain to him when they try to resubmit cards back through PSA/DNA and get rejected, much like what Raymond experienced.

Raymond

<< <i>I've purchased many cards and lots from the person selling the Maris, and will do so again. I guess that Curtis just got tired of having his customers complain to him when they try to resubmit cards back through PSA/DNA and get rejected, much like what Raymond experienced. >>



I will no longer buy an auto unless the seller is willing to take a return if PSA/DNA rejects it. Yes, their is a major problem with PSA/DNA if they can't recognise that they have already authenticated the item. If they are selling the card as PSA/DNA certified then they better take it back if PSA/DNA states that it is not genuine...

schr1st

While I understand your position, I feel that PSA/DNA bears a bit more responsibility for the error than the seller. Your seller bought the item in good faith, presuming the autograph to be authentic since Spence and Co. waived their magic wand over the lot and deem it authentic. They in turn sell the item as authentic, only to have an angry customer coming back to them when PSA/DNA rejects the item that they once said was legit.

From Boosters, I've purchased my autographed Paige rookie, a nice Wilt Chamberlain autographed card, and a host of other great autographs that all came from Mastronet lots. I've saved the auction descriptions with pictures to my hard drive for reference. I haven't sent any of them in for slabbing yet, and understand/accept that I'll have to pay the full "Great Combo" price on them, but if any of them get rejected for questionable authenticity, they'll never hear the end of it. I won't be mad at Curtis and wouldn't approach him for a refund, I'll be furious at PSA/DNA.



<< <i>

<< <i>I've purchased many cards and lots from the person selling the Maris, and will do so again. I guess that Curtis just got tired of having his customers complain to him when they try to resubmit cards back through PSA/DNA and get rejected, much like what Raymond experienced. >>



I will no longer buy an auto unless the seller is willing to take a return if PSA/DNA rejects it. Yes, their is a major problem with PSA/DNA if they can't recognise that they have already authenticated the item. If they are selling the card as PSA/DNA certified then they better take it back if PSA/DNA states that it is not genuine... >>

joker73

<< <i>buy from a reputable company (Steiners, UD, Topps etc) that was present for the signing >>


My understanding is that Topps is the only card manufacturer that always has a rep present for signings - did UD change their system recently?

duner

buying from a company that's always in the presence is a nice novelty. However, you're pretty much at someone else's mercy if your looking for autographs of dead people. psa/dna is supposed to cure that, but half their coa's are really as worthless as anyone elses, since they can be easily photocopied etc. especially for these mass authentications they do for random auction houses. while i started this thread regarding an autograph that psa/dna specifically wrote a letter for (without any attempt to link the two together.) just the other day i got another auto in the mail. it came with a photocopy of a psa/dna letter (made with a color copier, and you couldn't tell the difference b/w it and the original) it said "psa autheniticates this lot of 37 hall of famers including....and it named 7 people. they didn't even think the other 30 hall of famers were even worth mentioning. of course my hall of famer was one not worth mentioning. that's the most asanine thing i've ever seen. any shady dude on earth would think "hmmm, lets make another color copy of the cert, forge a jim thorpe signature, and sell it on ebay as psa/dna certified....and make a fortune" with it being that easy, i don't think psa/dna is gonna be worth the paper it's written on within a year.