Are DCAM PR70's just a macho fad?? Opinions please!

cary1952

what do you think? Are they worth it, or are you just paying for that last POINT to be macho, egotistical, or showing off the money! Is the difference from 69 to 70 just who you know at PCGS??????

How can I spot a raw 70???????????

Is it a crap shoot????

If i looked at 1000 proof sets, would I be able to spot the 70's? Is it worth my time even if I could?

Lots of questions from a very newbie!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.

Cary

Steve27

"Are DCAM PR70's just a macho fad??"

Probably, I suspect that if they were cracked-out and resubmitted, most would come back as 69s.

The best way to make a 70 is to purchase a large number of sets directly from the mint, eliminate the ones with obvious flaws, and submit the remainder. Then about 1-2 percent should come back in 70 holders.

Typetone

Modern 70DCAMs have come down quite a lot from the peak a year or so ago. Many regular dates might be an OK buy now. I would not encourage you to try to make your own. You will spend a lot on proof sets and on submissions for the few you might get. There is little difference between a 69 and 70. Most are unable to see the difference if there is even one. Your eyes will hurt bad after a day of two of this work. Headaches will be severe.

Greg

BaileyBoysplusMom

Hi, cary 1952

Perhaps the recent thread "Where has the monsterman gone" can help a few of those? Can use search option under "monsterman" to find it. Forbes magazine has some nice info. on collectables(bottom line top 1% outperforms from an investment standpoint).

IMHO as a: Retail, investor/collector type, in the modern series I collect , I buy the best coins I can in PCGS 70's because ultimately rarity and condition of a collectable(top 1%) is what I want to see, and I will pay the price needed to find the best coin out there.

Finding a dealer to help you is paramount from my perspestive(Retail), and when it comes to PCGS 70's , Wondercoin is a nice place to start.

Hope this helps.

BBpM

wondercoin

BBpM - Thanks for the comment.

I posted this on the other board:

Telling the difference between 1 point differentials is difficult for most collectors whether one is talking about PR70's or classic coins. And, so it is a personal decision whether one choses to collect PR70's or any "top pop" coins for that matter.

I attended the November, 2002 Santa Clara Heritage auction, along with just about every top upgrader/dealer in the country. In that auction was a 1910(s) Lincoln cent in ICG-MS67RD, which, at the time, no one (no world class upgrader that is) figured for anything other than a cross to PCGS-MS66RD. The coin sold for a couple thousand dollars (basically PCGS-MS66RD money and to a collector I believe). The coin was submitted to PCGS and crossed. The lucky buyer from that auction placed the coin on ebay where it sold for $36,000 (to one of the SAME world class upgraders/dealers who did not grade the coin MS67RD back at the 2002 auction). I am informed that within a week or two the coin then traded hands closer to $50,000 and folks were discussing this particular Lincoln as one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, 1910(s) Lincoln in a holder today! Yes, no world class upgrader chose to bid $3,000 in the 11/02 sale, but then one was comfortable paying $36,000 (and a whole lot more had he been challenged further in that ebay auction) FOR THE VERY SAME COIN!

Bottom line - the reason people pay "good money" for PR70 coins is the EXACT reason they pay "good money" for nearly any other coins in pop top holders in my opinion.

Wondercoin

dbldie55

I think wondercoin just answered yes to your question.

ellewood

I am not a profession grader nor am I a dealer....just a fairly new collector. I have been watching the PCGS boards and eBay on daily basis for about a year now. The hype is certainly there - more than ever - for 70DCAM proofs. I have decided NOT to purchase any PR 70DCAM coins...not because I can't afford them...but because no one knows how long that coin will actually be a 70 in that holder. Is it going to develop a haze, etc????. I am just too worried to drop $500 or even a $1000 on a coin and then in two years the coin turns and I know in my own head that it is only a 69 or a 68 in a 70 holder. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. The same argument can be said for me if I purchase PR69DCAM coins...they could very easily turn and become 68DCAM coins. In fact, three of the 200+ PR69DCAM modern proofs that I have purchased in the last year have since developed a haze and/or some other type of mark on them and I can honestly say that they would probably not grade a 69DCAM if they were cracked out and resubmitted today. So could this happen to a 70 coin? Less likely probably...but it could still happen. I don't know much about PCGS's guarantee...but rumour has it that they would compensate you for the coin if and when it tunred in the holder. I can certainly back up those who have suggested contacting Wondercoin....from what I gather....Mitch is the king of the perfect 70 coins. I have purchased some stunning PR69DCAM coins from him in the past. I would go to him FIRST if I was looking to purchase 70's.

keets

i can't speak about MS issues, but most of the PR70DCAM's i've seen have a bit more intense frost and contrast than the other coins that is probably what sets then one point higher. in the end, it's up to the buyer to decide if the extra cost is worth the slight difference, just as it is in any one point same issue jump.

al h.

raycyca

Ellewood: If it does turn sour in the PCGS holder, send it back to PCGS. They will regrade it as a 69, or whatever. BUT, then they will pay you the difference between the 69 and the 70. Or, from what I understand, reimburse you for the coin if you can provide proof of sale price. That's why PCGS coins sell for much more than most other services. I only have 8 70DCAMs, my recent from Mitch too. I've waited for the right coin/price to come along. I have no regrets and if I ever decided to sell, I would make a profit. I can't see selling until I was almost dead, but it is a point I consider when buying a coin. I buy the coin because I like it. Not the holder. I DID recently buy a coin that's borderline MS 67(POP top) but got it for a LOT less than the last one sold. So I kept it and it now fills one of my "wants" for my set. Hope this helps. Ray

JoshL

I have a bunch of coins in my set from WonderCoin and he can find them

egsantos

I made a set of 57 coins, Kennedy in the case, where 51 was PR70DCAM.
One, the 1969, I never bought (pop 1) and the other seven do not exist in 70 grade.
I can guarantee to you that have a BIG difference between a average 69 and the 70's.
Some of my coins deserve a 71, if it exists....
A month ago, I decide to sell and in 2 (two) days it was sold. I assure that I not loose money.
You can conclude that high level set is a fantastic asset or the buyer is more "macho" than me.
Now I start a new challenge that is made a perfect 'Modern Proof Type Set", and for do that I bought some gorgeous PR70DCAM.
I'm not feel myself more "macho", but is great see the perfection.
The same feeling that you have when had a Renoir in the wall.

Edson

wondercoin

"You can conclude that high level set is a fantastic asset or the buyer is more "macho" than me."




Wondercoin

Cameonut

Here is my humble opinion.

If we define 'fad' as a something that people will be interested in for a short time, then I do not think DCAM PR70's are a fad. I think there will always be demand for the "perfect" coins. There is always alot of debate as to whether you can really see a difference between a nice 69 and a nice 70. In my experience, I have a couple of 70's that are clearly superior to 69's and a few that are really hard to tell. In any case, there will always be people that will want the 70's.

However, I do think that the prices that 70's command is temporary (and I am speaking of the post 1967 coins here). I have not been a buyer for these coins at past price levels (with the exception of two or three pieces). I believe that they are overvalued because the demand exceeds the current supply. There are others on this forum that can speak to price trends with more specifics, but 18 months ago most 70's sold for about $1000. The price trend has clearly been downward from there, you can pick up 70's for $3-400 often. But when will it end? In my opinion, the market will always determine the price, but I think that 70's are worth no more than 20 times the value of a 69 (in the long run) to me. So a common Lincoln that sells for $10-15 ought to be worth $200-300.

To summarize - my opinion: DCAM PR70's will always be popular, but I am thankful that I did not invest thousands of dollars in them over the past three years. But I will be buying as the market moves toward equilibrium.

segoja

Agree with Cameonut! Thye will be coming down in price, and still I will not be buying.

Nice PF69DCAM's yes. PF70DCAM's no!

If and when PCGS no longer exists, how much do you think those PF70DCAM's will be worth?

wondercoin

If and when PCGS no longer exists, how much do you think those PF70DCAM's will be worth?

Perhaps a couple dollars more or less than those MS67 Clad Ikes that sell for thousands and thousands of dollars per coin that you believe are not even as nice as some of the MS66's out there.

Wondercoin

Typetone

Segoya:

If PCGS or a successor ceases to exist, it would most likely be because of a major crash in the rare coin market. In that event, the least of my concerns would be the loss in value of my 70 DCAMs.

Greg

DeepCoin

I have another slightly different take on the PF and MS 70 coins. Every series has a ceiling. If you go back in time, the ceiling gets lower and lower. This is just the modern ceiling. People make the same arguments regarding MS67 and MS68 coins in some of the classic series.

What compounds the factor in moderns is the incredible high quality the U.S. Mint is now producing and the volume of coins being minted. For example, there will be roughly a million silver proof dimes, quarters and halves made this year.

I have owned a couple of 70s, (Thanks Mitch!) and regret selling the one I bought a few years ago. I have the same difficulty figuring out why some of my 69s are not 70s, but then I do not submit coins as I think you have to be REALLY good to make any money out that practice.

I would also say that is the beauty of the hobby. There is something for everyone, even something to bash when you are feeling irritated.

dpoole

I agree with others here, that there will always be a market for a coin designated as "perfect," according to some discernible criteria. It is a niche, just like Braddicks efforts to collect the worst coins out there with discernible dates, people who are into errors, varieties, and other perculiarities of the hobby. Even if PCGS cratered, these coins I believe would still be in demand, IF THE CRITERIA FOR THE GRADE REMAINS DISCERNIBLY VERIFIABLE. With respect to prices, the only issue is the supply.