Bulk "same-set" submissions...

downgoesfrazier

It's been stated numerous times here that many post 1970 collectors are aiming to do their sets in primarily raw form moving forward as the grading cost is prohibitive. I have a half-baked idea that I'll throw out there and you guys can mutate it into something that's compelling...

Currently it costs PSA about $3 per card to grade...Here's a thought: a "bulk same set submission deal". Wherein they simple put a hologrammed sticker on your card-saver or some other "cheaper" holder for the cost of $1.50 per card. This would make the 800 card submission doable and PSA would make a few bucks for their effort. Until then it's RAW baby, RAW!



dgf

RayBShotz

DGF - Are you saying that currently PSA will grade your "bulk same set submission" for $3 a card?
RayBShotz

pandrews

I think he is saying that PSA's cost is about $3.00/card..

highend

i'm doing a run of TRULY raw nm-mt+ to mint sets from 75 to 79 and i'm having so much fun, i miss handling the cards and love to pull gems from piles of raw. i still plan to buy psa cards along the way and crack them for my binders or cs2's.
i like this idea because when the sets are done i could send the entire set to PSA for a final stamp of approval (or my own self validation) and not spend more on grading than i did on the cards!!

downgoesfrazier

PA's got it correct. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, PSA's cost is roughly $3 per card. Highend, many collectors are doing the same thing you are (except that CS1's are MUCH better for your cards and binders would qualify as "card-abuse"...). Anyway, therein lies the root of an upcoming issue for PSA. The money is simply not in the vintage for a grading company. There is a finite amount of cards out there from 1900-1969. Guys who collect raw will tell you that finding vending fresh centered cards from these era's is virtually becoming an extinct process. The money for PSA is in guys like me and dealers like Roger Rumsey or Joe Tuttle sending in thousands of cards at a time. The grading fees on modern, even at reduced $5 specials, are prohibitive in light of what an end user will pay. The idea I was throwing out there was to lessen PSA's cost and therefore making some room for 1988's to make their way into "holders". A heat-sealed card-saver...something like that. The fact is that PSA could really use the added revenue of modern cards to sustain their long-term viability. Frankly, I'm really surprised this thread has so few responses.

dgf

calleocho

i had a half baked idea that PSA should grade my cards for FREE!

get real man...5 bucks is a good deal.

considering what it costs to authenticate and grade other similar collectibles and the actual cost of an airtight waterproof holder , i dont think that the price is bad at all.

the people that gripe about not being able to shell out 5 bucks per card for a 700 cards set will still complain about shelling out 2 bucks per card.

i agree with you that PSA will need new ideas in order to grade all those worthless late 70's cards but lowering their profit margins for the sake on volume business doesnt quite cut it

downgoesfrazier

<< <i>i had a half baked idea that PSA should grade my cards for FREE!

get real man...5 bucks is a good deal.

>>



Calleocho,
I have held back from torching the bejesus out of you half a dozen times in the past year because someone I respect said "he's a good guy, take it easy". Your response here is not only lacking in intelligence, but it's constructive qualities are restrained at best and it finds itself misdirected. The bulk and cash is in modern and 70's-80's card--like it or not. PSA is struggling--like it or not. They are ALWAYS looking for ways to increase revenue streams, tap new markets, or create the perception of innovation. Your post misses the mark completely. PSA's problem is that it costs them $3 to grade a card that is selling for $3 in MINT 9--the goal of many collectors. Where is the dealer incentive? Result: PSA hands out 10's like candy and the end user compiles a large stack of sub-par cards. This is precisely why the standards on 70's & 80's issues has slipped dramatically in the past year. PSA simply has to make it worthwhile for large submitters. And did I detect a hint of smugness in your "worthless late 70's cards" comment. What is so earth-shattering about what you collect? Coming on here and telling yourself that $5 is a good deal doesn't really get you better grades. Did you know that? Joe doesn't read the boards and say "That Calleocho, he's a team player...I like him...10's for him...no soup for frazier". You know it doesn't work like that, right? I know of three collectors that would send PSA complete sets of 80's cards for $2 per card. For the record, I've only talked with three. Those same guys will keep them raw until it pencils to do otherwise. As for "shelling out $5 vs. $2 you're simply WRONG!" That's a difference of 2 grand. You can buy some nice cards for two grand. Heck with two grand, you could go to charm school and learn how to be less of a heap of human refuse. Read my intial post on the subject and take a portion of your two grand and buy a clue.


dgf

calleocho

Downgoesfrazier,

Im not being rude, simply offered a different point of view. I actually think you are a great asset to these boards and i dont want to get into a pissing match with you.

the only reason that those late 70's PSA 9's are selling for $3 bucks is the 5 dollar fee that it takes to grade them, if the grading fee was 3 bucks then that same card would sell for 1.50.

The supply is simply too much. At the present time these cards are not worth the premium of grading not for $5 bucks or even $2

I reread your post again and i still dont get it ...you want PSA to holder your cards without grading them or authenticating them and just simply add a sticker?

and you would be willing to pay $ 1. 50 for that?

how does that make sense? anyone can just buy a lot of 800 holders and do it themselves.

how would PSA make money on this deal?

After you factor in the actual cost of the holder, the hologram sticker, the sealing machine, manpower , the building, and who knows what else their profit magin on your 1.50 per card becomes a joke.

downgoesfrazier

Their profit margin on a $5 special is 1.50 as well. With my suggestion, everybody would win. The cards would have a hologrammed sticker sealing the card-saver (like a pre-grade service) and they would still make some dough and collectors can then TRADE cards like we used to. Further, we could list cards on eBay in CS1's with the PSA hologram seal. I understand the dealer still won't make money on 9's and collector's won't either, but the outlay of up-front cash won't be there and it makes it more acceptable to chase 10's at a couple buck a throw. It creates interest and, hey, I said it was half-baked. There are drawbacks I'm overlooking. That's why I opened up the discussion. I found your tone disrespectful and off-base. The idea is quite legitimate. Whether it is truly a sound one needs exploring. PSA needs to keep their margins the same and see more cards in the grading room. Simple as that.

dgf

calleocho

I am sorry if my tone was disrespectful.

im not sure that PSA is hurting fanancially. they keep grading the same average of cards every month.

But since newer cards are the future, it is important that PSA keeps leading the way

post 1971 cards are a different animal than vintage cards..maybe they should be graded as such.

i really dont care at all for half points, subgrades and all that stuff, but i do realize that for some parts of the hobby this is a big deal.

what i think PSA could do for modern collectors is offer more for their dollar.

in a world where there is nearly endless supply of these cards , PSA needs to create an almost artificial scarcity.

They would first have to offer half grades, then subgrades and then a pristine grade.

then they would actually have to increase the price to keep people from sending too much and thus creating more percieved scarcity while they actually increase their profits even while summisions drop in numbers.

im not sure that this would actually help the average collector at all though.

Dallas88

This is actually a nice topic to discuss.

DGF has a very good point in that the COLLECTOR'S cost of grading a 660 card (i.e. 1975 Topps), with a $5 special would be $3330, not including shipping, insurance, regrades, etc.

$3330 is a nice piece of change for cardboard, at one time, (for most of us).

CALLEOCHO makes a good point in that, as time goes by, 70's PSA 9's are increasing in supply. (I would disagree in that the late 70's cards are worthless).

So the underlying question is, WILL THE DEMAND INCREASE for graded, 70's cards? If the demand would increase, then prices realized would follow, and more collectors would submit their 70's (even 80's?) cards.

Will time help to increase demand? Will the GenX "30 somethings" who grew up in the 70's-80's (like me) "return" to the hobby once they have some disposable income? How about when baseball's economics become competitive again? Will the fans (potential collectors) then return???

This issue goes hand-in-hand with the topic of "who will be the next generation of collectors".

This issue goes hand-in-hand with new hobbyists jumping into our hobby and being burned by PRO and GEM companies that shouldn't even exist.

This issue goes hand-in-hand with the scam artisits on ebay (who shouldn't exist), that are driving that new collectors from our hobby.

This is probably not the thread to discuss this, but our hobby needs better "monitoring", maybe a central organization (?) to police itself, to police the sellers, and to protect the newer collectors who will be tomorrow's buyer of "vintage", or 70's, or 80's material.

In one way, I'm surprised the grading companies, and "big-name" dealers have not taken a more active stance in "monitoring" the hobby. (That's not an accusation, just my opinion). All potential "positives" resulting from a central monitoring organization such as this, would be felt, in the end, as profit to the bottom line of the legitimate grading companies.

Sorry for confusing the issue, but it's a very broad topic with far reaching consequences for the hobby's future.

Any other opinions?

Thanks for reading!

Dal

highend

as DGF stated there are drawbacks to the proposal. personally, i like the idea of being able to submit a COMPLETE set of raw cards(say 75 to present), have them authenticated, graded and holdered in some fashion.

the complete set concept would target COLLECTORS who like to seek out raw cards that meet THEIR standard. maybe the holdered cards wouldn't even have an individual cert# on them, maybe just a set #, something like:

1975 topps #660, mint 9, set id # 000001

having said that, like it or not PSA 's bread and butter is large dealer submissions. it wouldn't be fair to say that PSA doesn't care about collectors but the reality is that like any business the bottom line comes first.

SOM

calleocho: as of today, there are 16,831 Topps 1978 PSA 9's and 10's in the pop report, which averages to 23 examples of each card. And that is assuming even distribution...star, superstar, rookie or common!

So, with 43 Registrants currently assembling the set, do you really think that makes 1978 PSA 9 cards "worthless?"

The 1977 math is even more dramatic. There are only 6,898 9's and 10's, which equates to 10 cards of each player be distributed among 36 Registry participants. (The numbers are similar for 1979.)

No, they do not fetch ten dollars apiece any longer, but surely the cards will move in the $2.50 - $4 range.

I'll be trying out that theory in a few weeks with some large lots of dupes I own.

calleocho

the cards are not worthless and they hold great sentimental value to many collectors.

grading them right now just doesnt make a lot of sense, thats all.