Mastro auction question

JTB

Hey,
In their last catalog auction, I was very interested in several "hoards" of 1970-1972 Topps. I was outbid on all three. In the latest catalog, I found very similar hoards.

Here's the description for the 71s:
1971 Topps Vending Hoard (3,000+)
Presented is an enormous accumulation of 3,000 1971 Topps semi-high numbered (524-643) cards. As is the case with most Topps issues, the higher-numbered cards are more difficult to locate than those of earlier series. As the baseball season progressed, the novelty of the season's baseball cards wore off as kids anticipated the upcoming football offerings. This collection is part of a 1970's dealer's stock that has sat untouched for over 30 years. Virtually all of the cards were taken from unopened cases, mainly vending, by the dealer in the year of issue and made into lots to be sold in bulk. The balance has since remained untouched. The corners on virtually all the cards grade from EX/MT to NM/MT. Typical storage handling over the years has taken a bit of the crispness off some of the delicate corners. The overall centering on the cards is not optimal, with its weakness especially evident among the star cards. Nevertheless, the cards are extremely sharp and certainly have that pack-fresh look to them. The distribution of the 3,000 cards is erratic as some numbers are represented by large quantities of cards and others are completely missing. Generally, the stars and premium cards are well represented with over 500 of the cards featuring a Hall of Famer. Includes: #'s 525 Banks (63), 530 Yaz (21), 550 Killebrew (63), 574 Bunning (27), 580 Perez (102), 600 Mays (36), 605 Cepeda (45), 619 Checklist (57), 625 Brock (67), 630 Clemente (31) and 640 Robinson (74). A tremendous chance to secure a substantial inventory of these popular cards.

So I got out my catalog and checked the previous auction. Here's the description for the 71s:
Lot 1910: 1971 Topps Semi-High Vending Hoard (5000+)
Presented is an enormous accumulation of 1971 Topps semi-high numbered (524-643) cards. As is the case with most Topps issues, the higher-numbered cards are more difficult to locate than those of earlier series. As the baseball season progressed, the novelty of the season's baseball cards wore off as kids anticipated the upcoming football offerings. The offered collection is part of a 1970's dealer's old stock that has sat untouched for over 30 years. Virtually all of the cards were taken from unopened cases, mainly vending, by the dealer in the year of issue and made into lots to be sold in bulk. The balance has since remained untouched. The corners on virtually all the cards grade from EX/MT to NM/MT. Typical storage handling over the years has taken a bit of the crispness off some of the delicate corners. The overall centering on the cards is not optimal, with its weakness especially evident among the star cards. Nevertheless, the cards are extremely sharp and certainly have that pack-fresh look to them. The distribution of the 5,000 cards is erratic with some numbers being represented by hundreds of cards and others completely missing. Generally, the stars and premium cards are well represented with over 1000 of the cards featuring a Hall of Famer. Includes: #'s 525 Banks (95), 530 Yaz (63), 543 Yankees (10), 550 Killebrew (211), 563 Giants (3), 567 Alston (17), 570 Palmer (1), 574 Bunning (47), 580 Perez (340), 584 Indians (28), 600 Mays (127), 605 Cepeda (86), 609 Durocher (12), 619 Checklist (121), 625 Brock (133), 630 Clemente (62) and 640 Robinson (201). A tremendous lot that will keep one busy filling other collector's wants lists for the next 10 years.

Any chance that the 31 remaining Clementes (out of 62) and the 36 remaining Mays (out of 127) are the best-centered of the bunch? Just seems a little weasly that they would use the same description in both auctions (especially: This collection is part of a 1970's dealer's stock that has sat untouched for over 30 years.....The balance has since remained untouched.)

I don't think I'll be bidding on any more of their "hoards".

Thoughts?

mikeschmidt

The description clearly states in both that the centering is suboptimal.

Reason would dictate that any HOFs that would definitely grade out as 8 or better would never be included in a lot such as this to begin with. There may be a lot of borderline 8s - but the general suggestion here is that all the HOF and star cards are in a condition that is like 7 or worse, with some having a potential for 8. Also - when you have lots such as this - it probably (in my opinion) was just broken up and sold as two to realize maximum value. I would imagine that was probably just split up. I'm not sure why there is an uneven distribution of the cards between the two lots, but I wouldn't read much into it.

~ms

Buckwheat

I would agree with Marc that the lot was probablyt just split in two for the two auctions. I also thing that it is safe to say that there will not be any high grade stars, and probably very few high grade commons in the lot. No doubt the best were taken out prior to selling, and certainly all of the centered stars. If any would grade high, Mastro usually has them graded prior to listing in the auction.

Cubfan

Could it be that the winner of the first lot selected all the cards he wanted and then consigned the remainder to try to recoup the costs of the cards he didnt want?

Thats not too different from the people who keep buying and selling the same card(s) over and over again in these auctions.

Its really not that bad of an idea maybe?

JTB

Cubfan,
I think that's what happened. But should they use the same description as "untouched for over 30 years"?

NickM

I don't think Mastro would have cherrypicked the lot for common 8s to grade. The price they would get for most of the medium and higher-pop 8s (especially if they had a large number of a card) would not make it worth their while, especially when you count the time spent in examining the cards before sending them in.

Nick

Cubfan

Nick, Im not saying that Mastro cherry picked. Im saying the winner of the first lot cherry picked and then decided to recoup some cost by putting the remaining cards back up for auction. Theres nothing wrong with that.

But the untouched thing is probably just Mastro-ese that most serious collectors take with a full pound of salt. Too many of their descriptions have been proven to be more than a little embellished (not the ones for my lots however ).

If it sat untouched for 30 years, that only takes it to 2001. It doesnt really say that it was untouched up to the point where they were placed in this auction. Again, Mastro-ese.

NickM

Cubfan - I'm not disagreeing with you. Buckwheat had suggested that Mastro might have cherrypicked the cards for grading. The economics of raw card review IMO make that unreasonable while it might be reasonable for a buyer.

Nick