I'm getting tired of ebay sellers who keep talking about how "subjective" coin grading is.

Myqqy

They make their living selling coins, but they can't give you a professional opinion about the grade of the coin they're selling, or if there are any problems (like cleaning) with the coin they are selling- but they can feel completely comfortable selling raw and third world slabs.....

I love disclaimers like this one:

Because of the nature and the subjectivity involved in coin grading, we will not attempt to say the exact grade of this raw coin. Additionally, there is always much debate on whether or not a coin has been cleaned, and all we will say is that this coin certainly has not been cleaned by us. All sales are FINAL, NO REFUNDS!!

Here's the link from whence that disclaimer came...... subjective linkage

braddick

Notice too he declares in auction title the Morgan is MS64 yet the slab states MS63.

roadrunner

Yes. I ran across an auction where the title was for a PCGS 64 coin. Turns out it was in an NTC-64 holder and the seller was hinting that as a PCGS64 it could be worth $10,000 (rather than the $580 the coin was bid at). I emailed the high bidder as to why he responded to this scam. His answer included the words subjective and basically told me I was an a$$hxxx. The real funny thing was that the high bidder was ALSO the seller! Oops....was he ticked off.

That's the way the ball bounces.

roadrunner

DennisH

"Subjective" is scam seller loophoole-speak for: "I can call it a trumped-up higher grade and get away with it because there is so much difference of opinion about grading."

By the way, "All sales are FINAL, NO REFUNDS!! " confirms any suspicions or concerns you may have.

cmanbb

Kinda along the same lines as this....................................
I frequently visit an ebay store/site where this "high powered" seller ALWAYS list his/her coins like this:

PCGS VF25 LOOKS VF35
PCGS AU50 LOOKS AU58
PCGS XF40 LOOKS AU50 ETC.........ETC..........ETC..........

The funny thing is, the starting price is base on "what it looks like"

K6AZ

I simply won't bid on auctions that put that kind of stuff in the description. Problem solved.

Coinhusker1

All sales final, and he won't even show a crappy picture of the reverse of the coin!!!

ccex

I agree with what I read above. Keep in mind that eBay PowerSeller with a 99.6% positive feedback rating has been deemed a pillar of the eBay "community" and is sworn to upholding eBay's core values. Yeah, right!

Since NTC graded it 63 and he sold it as a 64, AS IS., for $36.50 plus S&H, (Graysheet for 63), the winning bidder has no grounds to complain to eBay. Still, rhe single crappy photo doesn't let us know if NTC graded properly or not.

This is another example - although not an outrageous one - as to why I'm now buying fewer coins from eBay auctions and many more from dealers or collectors I know.

morgannut2

The only "subjective" gradingline I have ever been impressed by is from Rare Coins of New Hampshire's web site and occasional auctions: "We guarantee the grade of the coin to certify at that grade or higher, or will refund you money in full". No time limit of other bull#$%!!

ccex

<< <i>The only "subjective" gradingline I have ever been impressed by is from Rare Coins of New Hampshire's web site and occasional auctions: "We guarantee the grade of the coin to certify at that grade or higher, or will refund you money in full". No time limit of other bull#$%!! >>



That's impessive! Most eBay sellers post a guarantee no more meaningful than my favorite warranty of all time. The Ghana National Trading Company in the early 1980s printed on the containers of the condoms they sold "The child adopted or your money cheerfully refunded"

ksteelheader

Excuse me guys, but grading is very much subjective! Otherwise, we would all agree that all PCGS graded coins are correct, and there would never be a need for resubmission! Correct??? Or, is that just the wind I hear howling???

Ken

INXS

<< <i>Excuse me guys, but grading is very much subjective! >>

IrishMike

First of all grading by its nature is subjective. Ask the buyer of the Lincoln cent in a Heritage auctin who paid, I believe around $3000 for it in a non-PCGS, non-NGC slab and had it holdered at the same grade in a PCGS slab and sold it for $25-30K. I am sure someone has the exact numbers and will correct my post, but regardless I don't see a reason to get all bunched up if a seller states that grading is subjective. I'd like to hear a cohesive arguement to the contrary. Of course some of the TPG's grossly overgrade, miss detrimental points on coins, but that doesn't evaporate the arguement on the subjectivity of grading.

mr1931S

"Excuse me guys, but grading is very much subjective!"

I agree to a point...however. I recently asked a seller a question about three different offerings. The auction descriptions seemed to me to be leading the potential buyer to an assumption that the coins offered were higher in grade than the actual coins that would be sent are.

The replies told me enough to stay away from this seller's auctions.

Rule of ebay thumb for newbies: If it sounds to good to be true, it most probably is.

Ask the seller a question. Carefully read the answer. One of the answers I got to my question, "Is the coin UNCIRCULATED?" was, "We are not graders of coins." Well, "why then, do you use the descriptor "red" for your Lincoln cent if you are not going to attempt to grade the coin?" might be a question to ask.

Apparently, he sells to the ignorant. Fine. I will stay away.

IrishMike

Because this statement "coin grading is subjective" is in an auction one shouldn't automatically assume that its a red flag. Those sellers on Ebay and other venues who misdescribe the grade of a coin are quickly found out and there are usually lots of red flags in their auctions. If you purchase coins on Ebay or anywhere else unseen then you are relying or not relying on the description and its always buyer beware, that much should be obvious or you shouldn't be buying coins this way. You send it back or leave the appropriate feedback at a future warning to buyers. How many buyers are really capable of an intelligent and experienced analysis of the grade anyway. Ignorance is a two way street when it comes to both sellers and buyers.

I might add that if it wasn't subjective then you wouldn't see upgrades. It depends on which of the graders get the coin and what they see or don't see in a few seconds. These guys aren't Gods, they are graders who make their best decision based upon experience and in some cases a grading set.

mr1931S

"Because this statement "coin grading is subjective" is in an auction one shouldn't automatically assume that its a red flag."

The ignorant one who doesn't know a red Lincoln from a red flag should take heed at the statement, "coin grading is subjective."
But that would require the ignorant one to acknowledge his or her own ignorance.

Another rule of ebay thumb for newbies: The knowledgeable don't need to hear the obvious. Take heed if you are hearing the obvious.

mr1931S

A statement might be seen in some auction descriptions that says, in effect, "notwithstanding our use of established descriptors that represent a coin industry recognized grade, care is taken to not misrepresent the grade."

Well, it seems to me that if a "red" Lincoln cent is offered by a seller who makes such a statement or similar, it's reasonable that "red" should be taken by prospective buyers to mean as in "uncirculated red." Such a statement indicates, to me at least, that the seller really does KNOW SOMETHING about the grade/condition of the coin being offered. If the "red" coin really is uncirculated why not just give an opinion saying so?

After all, in the "coin industry" there are no recognized grades such as "AU58, red" or "EF45 looks red" or "VF20 dipped in red paint," for example.

ziggy29

It is true that grading is subjective, obviously. But yeah, in the context of an eBay auction, it usually means, "if it's overgraded, too bad."

TUMUSS

I think that grading OPC's (other people's coins) is subjective....I don't know about you - but - I know exactly what my coins grades are!