How about this nice PSA 3 '52 Mantle?

detroitfan2 · November 25, 2004 8:03AM

Hi All,

This is my first post. Whatta yall think of this Mantle?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73435&item=5141689257&rd=1

This answers something that's been bothering me for a while . . . hard top-loaders or semi-rigid holders for vintage cards? I guess I'll stick with the hard top-loaders. If they're good enough for PSA, they're good enough for me.

Seriously, this one really bothers me. Anyway to get ebay to shut this one down?

MorrellMan · November 25, 2004 8:08AM

Welcome to the fray - here's the link to the auction.

jrdolan · November 25, 2004 8:37AM

A PSA flip digitally added to a toploader?

OK, I shouldn't laugh. Somebody's going to get ripped off. The weird thing is, since he found a scan of a PSA 3 Mantle, why didn't he just use the whole scan?

Stone193 · November 25, 2004 8:37AM

Hi detroitfan and welcome!
First off, I can't make out the certification number (done purposely?)...the back of the card doesn't even look like it is in the holder and in general, I think the whole thing looks like a "photoshop" job.
I have emailed the seller and asked for a better scan or the certification number. Best I can make out the number is 09649515 or 09849515? Neither number is a match on a cert. # check. But, also, it looks like a toploader and not a PSA holder also.
I will hold final impression till I get an email from the seller.
Happy Thanxgiving
your friend
Mike

edit: spelling and to add: this guy has gone from selling buck cards to something worth thousands - so what is it? The big score or hijacked account?

detroitfan2 · November 25, 2004 9:03AM

Well, he does make a point to mention the certification number in the listing. It is 03649515.

What's unusual for a "scam" auction is that he did not make it private. I emailed yesterday's leading bidder with my "opinion", but I have not heard back, and that person has since been outbid.

Nice talking to all of you!

A761506 · November 25, 2004 9:14AM

I've seen this auction... no photoshop job was necessary... if you have a real 1952 Topps Mantle card, then you have access to a virtual limitless supply of PSA flips, all you have to do is break the card out of the holder and resubmit. When you're playing with PSA 3 quality to begin with, there's not much risk in doing so. Anyways, that's exactly what happened here, the seller has an authentic PSA flip that was removed from a holder, and that card is clearly a fake (no missing pixel in the blue background as that variation must have), and certainly much higher grade than PSA 3, but the seller gives the impression (and BS story) that the card was broken out of the holder for display purposes.

Two of the higher bidders look like they are accustomed to being scammed and not knowing about it, as they have both recently purchased from private auctions. Anyways, it's a scam.

Since I started tracking '52 Topps Mantle auctions, there has not been a raw authentic Mantle sold on eBay since May.

detroitfan2 · November 26, 2004 2:31AM

OK, a few questions:

(1) Do you think the seller's id was stolen, or is he the crook? Just wondering based on his pretty decent feedback.

(2) What is the lucky buyer going to receive? Anything at all, or a fake Mantle in a top-loader?

(3) Is there anyway to contact ebay about this auction to shut it down?

-detroitfan2

"You know it's been a long day when they come out after the 5th inning and drag the warning track." -Mike Flanagan, Orioles pitcher

detroitfan2 · November 26, 2004 2:58AM

Here's a copy of the email reply that I received when I asked about the top-loader:

"This card is not being passed off as in a holder. Read the description, look at the back scan of the card, obviously not in a graded holder. Read again that I broke all graded cards I own out for my display. I displayed the PSA script that WAS in a graded holder to show that the card had once been graded."

I guess I can't read very good, because I didn't get that out of the description when I first read it.

MorrellMan · November 26, 2004 3:44AM

<< <i>Since I started tracking '52 Topps Mantle auctions, there has not been a raw authentic Mantle sold on eBay since May. >>

Probably the single most important observation based on research to be found anywhere regarding Mantles on eBay. Think about what that statement says.

jrdolan · November 26, 2004 9:48AM

He broke his '52T Mantle out of its PSA holder for his display? You know, I just realized the solution to my space problem. It's not the cards that are eating up all the room ... it's the damn holders they're in.

damnyankees · November 26, 2004 10:14AM

It's pretty clear that the card is in a toploader with the PSA label sitting on top!!

denwd1 · November 27, 2004 1:07AM

MorrelMan that statement about raw 52 mantles on ebay says it all. not 1 legit!

jrdolan · November 27, 2004 1:40AM

<< <i>

<< <i>Since I started tracking '52 Topps Mantle auctions, there has not been a raw authentic Mantle sold on eBay since May. >>

Probably the single most important observation based on research to be found anywhere regarding Mantles on eBay. Think about what that statement says.

>>

It says that anyone who would sell their 52T Mantle raw on eBay instead of getting it graded and selling it for 10x more has something wrong with him. Or ... hey I just thought of this ... maybe it's not graded because it's not gradeable? Or even ... now this is far-fetched, I admit ... just possibly it's not a real 52T Mantle!

Stone193 · November 27, 2004 2:24AM

John
Here's one way that a lot of this stuff winds up back raw on ebay or into a "Pro" holder:

This and a T206 Matthewson is up for sale at B&E - IMO, there is nothing wrong with selling it in this manner - unfortunately it WON'T be resold in kind.
your friend
Mike

jrdolan · November 27, 2004 2:29AM

Yeah Stone, I know. Maybe PSA should put a permanent "Evid. Trim" sticker directly on the card when they send it back ... or cut it in half like a terminated credit card.

I know, I know.

But kinda fun to think about.

Stone193 · November 27, 2004 2:34AM

<< <i>Maybe PSA should put a permanent "Evid. Trim" sticker directly on the card when they send it back ... or cut it in half like a terminated credit card. >>

detroitfan2 · November 28, 2004 10:10AM

Well, either the owner thinks the card was real or this guy is the greediest scam artist ever. Bidding reached over $4200 and didn't meet the reserve. I'm glad of that, means no one got taken. Of course, he's probably contacting the high bidder right now to sell the card outside of ebay, saving himself the fees and the negative feedback.

MorrellMan · November 28, 2004 10:31AM

Maybe PSA should include a small rubberstamp that says "Not Authentic" in their membership packages.

jrdolan · November 28, 2004 11:10AM

The naiveté and gullibility to be found on eBay never fail to amaze me. I wonder what kind of bids I could get if I "borrowed" the flip from Marshall Fogel's '52T Mantle and used it with one of my reprints in a toploader? (Extra lettering added because I know at least a couple Mantle scammers read these posts)

WinPitcher · November 28, 2004 11:43AM

the bidders list includes teddysballgame he of the pro holdered selling ilk.

JJman · November 29, 2004 1:23AM

Exactly where do you look for this pixel variance in spotting a fake '52 Topps Mantle?

How about this nice PSA 3 '52 Mantle?

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