Would you rather own a pop 1 coin or a lower grade coin of the same date ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

A pop 1 coin can be a dipped and stripped coin.It can also be an over graded coin.Perhaps it can be more than 100 times the cost of a similar looking coin one grade less.

I generally use all these factors when purchasing coins.Perhaps this is the reason I don't know Jack Schit anymore.It is definitely a reason why I am a dinosaur who doesn't collect late date wheat cents in ms 68 red grade.

What do you think?

Colorfulcoins

For me, I like both - a pop1 LOW Grade like this 1921 High Relief Peace $1 in PO01.

haletj

It would depend on the date and the quality. Say for example an ms67 1973-s penny gets graded (none are yet), I would want it (as long as it really is a nice true ms67) because then it would be possible to have all the 1970's in ms67, but say the pop 1 ms68 74-d I would not care about one bit for a nice ms67 would do fine. Same thing if I had tons of money to buy ms65rd early dates, I would want the pop 1 65rd 26-s (as long as the coin was true to the grade) but not any pop tops grading higher.

numonebuyer

The downside to a pop 1 coin is that there is no guarantee it will stay a pop 1 coin. Just buy what you like and can afford and the rest will work itself out.

TahoeDale

Stewie,

I can give an example in the series I collect as to when the top pop is desirable, and when it is not.

Barber halves in MS Most PCGS 67's are great pq coins, and at 18,000 to 20,000 fairly priced. The few 68's are not substantially finer, prettier or better struck, and average 60,000. It is hard to rationalize paying 60,000 for the one point better coin, when 60,000 will buy the key dates in 65 or even 66.

But the key dates of 1896-O, 1901-S and 1904-S --- if a 68 came along, none so far, most would jump at that coin.

Same with the lib nickels. The single top pop for any date exists for 7 dates-- MS 67. Only the 1883 with cents, 1897,1898,1899,1901, 1910, and 1911. All these are not key dates. But the price for almost all is 10 times or more than the under grade. I would not want to pay that much unless it were a key-- like the 1885, 86, 95, 96, or 12-S.

The pricing is more reasonable in the Bust halves for MS 67 top pops.There you can buy the only MS 67 for 30,000 for some coins. And a MS 67 is a marvelous coin. Alot nicer than almost all 66's.

So the answer is, it Depends !!!

oreville

Depends on date, quality and price. Also try to avoid paying for top pops in the modern era (post 1950's) since I know first hand how many rolls I personally own that could easily change the numbers (except 1980's decade clad quarters which were awful).

I hate to pay more than 3 times the price of the next lower graded coin.

tradedollarnut

Depends.

Is '100 times the difference' between $10 and $1,000 or $10,000 and $1,000,000? Is the undercoin extremely high end and on a good day would go up and is the overpop lucky to be in the holder.... or is the overpop coin a wonder coin for the series and acknowledged as the finest coin for that date no matter what grade inflation occurs?

Too many variables to give a fixed answer.

ps - the most I've ever paid for a 1/0 overpop in my collection is 10 times the value of the underpop .... and I can't think of any other instance where I paid more than 6 times. Usually it's 2-3 times. Guess that's the advantages of collecting classics? Or perhaps it's just a function of higher underpop valuations....

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

I'll giver some examples

1934 Lincoln cent ms 67 red $90........ms 68 red $ 9,000 (pop 7)
1935 " " ms 67 red $ 75 .....ms 68 red $ 10,000 (pop 5)
1940 " " ms 67 red $75 ... ms 68 red $ 12,000 (pop 4)
1944 D " " ms 67 red $90 .... ms 68 red $ 12,500 (pop 1)

1914 s Lincoln cent ms 65 red $8,000 ms 66 red $100,000 (pop 2)
1914 D " " ms 65 red $16,500 ms 66red $ 125,000 (pop3)

What do you make of these statistics?

Stewart

oreville

Never would buy those pop 7,5,4,1,2,3 at those prices.

The underdogs would fit my comfort level much better and MS-67Rd is still superlative gems whereas MS-68 is still a minor grade.

Same for MS-66RD versus MS-65RD. A minor grade.

I have my limits.

tradedollarnut

I'd rather have tweener coins....

MrEureka

It is definitely a reason why I am a dinosaur who doesn't collect late date wheat cents in ms 68 red grade.

Stewart - Just because you're a dinosaur doesn't mean you can't still be a fish.

tradedollarnut

Is that a guppy?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Andy - You keep referring to me as a fish.Perhaps,but I'm still waiting for you to take a shot at me.Offer me the 94 s dime that is stashed with Donn Kagin

Manofcoins - How many hundreds do you want to buy ?

tradedollarnut

Offer me the 94 s dime that is stashed with Donn Kagin

Been there ... done that.

LincolnCentMan

I'd take the PQ undergrade one.

David

LincolnCentMan

Stewart I will buy all your 1934, 1935, 1940, 1944-d Lincolns ms 67 grades at those prices.

Dang.... someone beat me too it!

David

Lakesammman

I'll buy a top pop coin in a heart beat if it looks like your "Princess". If stripped, let some other sucker get stuck.

Dennis88

Stewart,

It depends on the coin. Let's say it's a 1857 Flying eagle cent. I don't know the pops, but let's take ms65 and ms66.

Between a ms65 and a ms66 can be a difference, but that's not always the case. A PQ 65 could be of the 66, but there's a big price difference. If the ms65 is the same quality as the low 66, I take the 66. But if the 66 is the most beautifull business strike flying eagle cent I ever saw, I take the 66, whatever the price is.

The examples you gave are quite dramatic, but they illustrate it well. When the pop is higher than 10 coins, and I don't collect the series really, I settle with the lower grade.

So, It just depends....

Dennis

bushmaster8

My apologies for going off track a bit here but... I noticed this is becoming a bit of a Lincoln thread so I figure you are the guys that would know:

Is Dennis Dewart on these boards? I used to see him searching for super cents at all the shows in my area up until a year or two ago, then I haven't seen him since. Now I see his Lincolns headlining the next (Signature, I think) auction in Dallas. I lost his email when my old IMAC crapped out.

roadrunner

I've owned a pair of pop 1 coins that were superior to the underpops for the past 20-30 years. The price difference was never more than 2-5X the next best. If a pop 1 is not clearly the finest by a mile, with few understudies, I'm usually not a player. I prefer pop 1's to be within 2x the price of the lower grade. And in seated material that is often the case.

Depends on the price/value too. I sold my best pop 1 because I could no longer justify the price it was worth. There were many other better buys in the market imo. In other words, I could no longer pay that as a buyer. In that case I'd buy the understudy.

roadrunner

michael

i would pick whichever one that was better than solid for the grade with killer eye appeal

if both are high end for the grade and with killer eye appeal then i would choose the lower grade coin

if the higher grade coin is a good value buy high end and killer eye appeal and not over 3 times the lower grade coin i would buy the higher grade coin

and of course if both coins where high end killer eye appeal and the higher grade coin was a value buy not more than 3x the lower grade coin i would buy both coins

michael

lloydmincy

I have TWO of those high pop examples that Stewart pointed out. But I aint buying anymore. I all of a sudden got kicked in the head, KNOWING more HIGH POP's will hit the pop reports for PCGS. From now on, I am just going to wait......

I think in the teen years, it is justified. But later than that, NO WAY... Too many minted, and too many nice ones yet to show their bearded faces!!!

______Lloyd