Comments on 1980's rookie cards

DeutscherGeist

Hello fellow card crusaders,

I have been looking to see what action Curt Schilling's cards have on ebay recently and was kind of disappointed. I don't own his rookie cards (as far as I know), but its a disturbing trend.

1980's rookies of hot players don't see much action. Here is a list of some of the cards I am talking about:


1989 Upper Deck Gary Sheffield
1989 Upper Deck Randy Johnson
1989 Donruss Curt Schilling
1987 Donruss Greg Maddux
more.....


The following cards have declined over the last few years:

1983 Topps Gywnn, Boggs, Sandberg


All this does not make sense. Boggs and Sandberg could be enshrined in a couple months and still no movement to their previous levels of several years ago?

Schilling and Johnson finished second in Cy Young and had excellent seasons. Schilling is starting to have a HOF resume. Johnson is in if he were to retire now, but he keeps putting impressive season together and that will only add to his ledgend. Schilling is part of Red Sox lore. He helped them win the WS all the while having a "red sock." I thought every Bostonian would be buying some Schilling rookies right now since they are dirt cheap, hard to find MINT (chipping) and there is only one version in 1989. I thought those PSA 9's would really have high demand!


Rickey Henderson is holding steady at $250+ and deserves to be up there. Mattingly is steady at $50.

Sheffield puts up an MVP type season and his PSA 9 Upper Deck has a tough time getting $12. Perhaps in Sheffield's case, it has not helped him by changing teams so often. I am sure he does not like it either, but these are the times we are living in: Free Agency Ueber Alles!

I guess these cards are overproduced in horrible ways. But one still surprises me: 1983 Sandberg (who does not think he will get elected this time?)

softparade

Interesting post

I have a 1989 Donruss Wax case hid away just for that Schilling, Johnson factor. May take 20 years before desirable
due to over printing.

Lothar52

NO clue....i am suprised at how cheap sandberg is as well. I picked up a OK centered SGC 96 copy of his RC for all of 8 dollars INCLUDING shipping. WOW!!!! I remember back in 1990 at the age of 13 his RC was teh hottest thing at the local sportscard show...now its nothing...

Speaking of declining RC........HOW ABOUT MCGWIRE!!! DOH!!!!! GOD HELP ME I LOST SOME MONEY ON HIM!!!

ALL The 80's cards were overproduced .....its upsetting ......cause honestly AS TIME GOES ON these cards DO have the vintage feel to them as they were JUST CARDS....no gloss or crap or anything....and there were only 3 choices throughout most of the decade....FLEER, DONRUSS, AND TOPPS....with each owning different years 84- donruss, 85-topps, 87-fleer. The decade also had the most influential set of the modern eera...89 UPPER DECK...which someday i plan on getting my 800 card set graded if they would ever drop the price to under 3 bucks for commons in the 80's....i mean give us a break!!!

At any rate...the 80s are simple understood by this statement..."COLLECT THEM IF YOU LIKE THEM"

Thats all I got to say about the 80s. I use this philosphy while collecting psa 5,6,7 1956 and 1957 topps sets....they wont appreciate like a 8 set will...but at least i can still enjoy them in all of there glory..THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE!!!!

Go read that ted williams / boggs/ mattingly thread with teh link to the story about hitting...now realize you own both 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58 williams topps cards....if nostalgia dont make ya smile nothing will!!!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAW!!!

Stone193

DG
I find the RC market of 80's cards disappointing also. My best guess: over-production.
The most attractive 90's and 2000's cards are the ones that are limited and autographed RC's IMO. If they don't exist, I try to go for the ones that appear to be the most limited in production.
your friend
Mike

helionaut

There were hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of copies of 1980s rookie cards made. Dealers broke down countless vending cases to sell 100-count lots back then, and that didn't satisfy demand. Today, because the market has shrunk so much since the 1991 peak, there can't be more than a couple hundred copies for a card to be considered "scarce," and therefore desirable. Gwynn, Boggs, and Sandberg have declined because they stopped playing. Their election to the Hall has been a foregone conclusion for years (more than a decade, really), at least for the former two, and for the latter it wouldn't be much of a surprise. The final honor has already been factored in. When discussing slabbed cards, UD cards are easy to find in high grade because the cardstock was high grade compared to soft cardboard, and at that point more people knew to keep their cards in mint condition. Depressed prices on 9s is to be expected since 10s are pretty much the target grade for base cards from 1989 and up. No matter how you look at it, there is more than enough supply on these issues to go around.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>Dealers broke down countless vending cases to sell 100-count lots back then, and that didn't satisfy demand. >>



I remember that, and this is a good reason why many 80's era RC's will never appreciate substantially (Bonds excluded). You could go to a show, and buy 100 count "investment lots" of future stars like Craig Jeffries, Kal Daniels, and the like. Even though there were only a few card brands, the presses were rolling out of control (especially 1987 and later). The only thing I regret is not buying more vintage cards back then, especially unopened product.

softparade

1980 -1985 should not be classified with 1986-1989 in my view. I collect un-opened boxes and cases and the early to mid 80's
are much tougher than say 1986 on .......

Stone193

<< <i>1980 -1985 should not be classified with 1986-1989 in my view >>


softparade
If you mean by "tougher" - a bit more expensive - the answer is yes - but if you mean by tough - "scarce" - yes and no - there is still tons of product in cases to be purchased from the early 80's - ya just gotta pony up a bit more cash IMO.
your friend
Mike

softparade

<< <i>

<< <i> but if you mean by tough - "scarce" - yes and no - there is still tons of product in cases to be purchased from the early 80's - ya just gotta pony up a bit more cash IMO.
your friend
Mike >>



Oh I agree, none of these cards will ever be truly "scarce" but in the same breath a 1987 topps case might always be cost comparable to a box or two of early 80's topps. ANYTHING is scarce compared to 87 topps

DeutscherGeist

There is a paradox when discussing the reason for 80's rookie cards not being worth much due to over production.

First of all, while a lot has been printed, not that much is really being preserved all that well. Even in the 80's, people were keeping cards in shoe boxes. Many cards are being donated to charity because they are worthless to a dealer, but maybe it can make some kids smile. A lot of these 80's cards were and are being abused because of the preception that they are plentiful and worthless. Pretty soon, there will be less and less of these cards in mint condition. It might take a while, but that day will come. There is always less and less unopened material, so I think that will have a steady climb.

Yes, there are a lot of 80's cards, so it is OK to trash some here and there, but on that token, the numbers will dwindle and pretty soon, they become scarce. The fact that they are plentiful today will make them scarce tomorrow.

koby

There are a lot of great players whose RCs are from overproduced 80s sets.

1980 Topps Henderson
1982 Topps Traded Ripken
1983 Topps Sandberg, Gwynn, Boggs
1984 Fleer Update Clemens, Puckett
1984 Donruss Mattingly
1985 Topps McGwire
1987 Fleer Bonds, Maddux
1989 UD Griffey, Johnson, Sheffield
1989 Donruss Schilling

Did I miss any?

Many of these guys are going to be future HOFers and these are certainly neat cards to have, but none of them will ever be "scarce." These things are just way too overproduced. In twenty years (if ebay if still in existence) you will be able to find tons of high grade specimens on ebay every day of the week. No different than today when you can find at least thirty gem mint 1987 Fleer Bonds RC each week.

The 1982 Topps Traded and 1984 Fleer Update sets are a little harder than cards from the regular sets. But no one in their right mind can call either of even these sets "scarce." You could find many high grade Clemens, Puckett and Ripken RCs everyday on ebay.

jrdolan

<< <i>DG
I find the RC market of 80's cards disappointing also. My best guess: over-production. >>


I agree. It's not the accomplishments or the chances of HOF induction, it's the astronomical numbers of these cards on the market. When it comes to 1987-92, everybody has five (if not 20) copies of the key rookies in PSA 10. The PSA 9's won't even make you back your grading fee.

And there's still many thousands of these cards waiting to be graded. Heck, you could buy 500 Schilling rookies and the market would barely notice. In fact there are dealers with that many who are waiting for it to be worth their while to get them graded. 4_sharp_corners notices when a PSA 10 barely breaks even and a PSA 9 loses a few dollars.

Trying to make money on cards from this era of overproduction is a bad idea. But if you don't care about ever getting your $$ back, they're pretty cheap to acquire (except for Bonds and a couple others) just for fun.

Of course now rookies are more limited in production, but there's so many countless different "limited" runs and variations it probably amounts to the same thing.

softparade

<< <i>There are a lot of great players whose RCs are from overproduced 80s sets.

1980 Topps Henderson
1982 Topps Traded Ripken
1983 Topps Sandberg, Gwynn, Boggs
1984 Fleer Update Clemens, Puckett
1984 Donruss Mattingly
1985 Topps McGwire
1987 Fleer Bonds, Maddux
1989 UD Griffey, Johnson, Sheffield
1989 Donruss Schilling

>>



1984 Donruss was not over produced as far as I know. Didn't they have problems with
printing facilities that year????

DeutscherGeist

Yes, the 1983 Boggs is a very nice card to have, but it can be had for less than $20 in MINT condition right now.

I think the Henderson and Ripken rookie really did a good job of holding and gaining value. On the other hand, there is only one type of Henderson rookie to begin with.


The 1984 Donruss was considered to be low in production, but I heard people say that those were the urban ledgends of the 80's but that the real truth is that they were actually mass produced. The whole bit about 1984 donruss being scarce was a rumor that took a life of its own and the real truth is that there were too many produced when all said and done. I don't know who to believe on this one. However, the 1984 Donruss cards do well on ebay compared to other 80's cards. Maybe the urban ledgend myth is behind all that steam though. Perceived value eventually becomes the actual value if enough people start to believe.

softparade

<< <i>


The 1984 Donruss was considered to be low in production, but I heard people say that those were the urban ledgends of the 80's but that the real truth is that they were actually mass produced. The whole bit about 1984 donruss being scarce was a rumor that took a life of its own and the real truth is that there were too many produced when all said and done. I don't know who to believe on this one. However, the 1984 Donruss cards do well on ebay compared to other 80's cards. Maybe the urban ledgend myth is behind all that steam though. Perceived value eventually becomes the actual value if enough people start to believe. >>



hmmm, well if the urban legend theory is true almost everybody is in on it because I don't see 84 Donruss readily available anywhere

Stone193

<< <i>I don't see 84 Donruss readily available anywhere >>


softparade
If you are interested in this issue, I recommend the Baseball Card Kid for 139$ or the Baseball card Exchange at 150$. Both are very honest and reliable with respect to clean, unsearched product. Many people on the board will agree.
This product is available and way cheaper than it was just a few years ago. And I might say, a really great design, IMO, with one of the most influential hobby RC's in Mattingly.
I would not buy this box on ebay except from someone I definitely knew and altho cases will not fall from the sky, I think that price is affordable IMO.
your friend
Mike

softparade

stone193, thanks. I have not bought any 84 Donruss through e-bay, as a matter of fact, I have not bought much from e-bay at all.
Thanks a ton for the links. I collect un opened stuff more than anything. My wife would agree. Closet space is a premium in my house lol..

Stone193

<< <i>I collect un opened stuff more than anything >>


I do too - not the only thing but it is one of the things I enjoy. Wish I had started back in the 80's before the boom. Having said that, some stuff is more affordable now than it was around 1995'ish - unopened vintage packs have done real well, on the other hand IMO. Biggest regret: not picking up a 52T pack when Mark Murphy had his "find" a few years ago - packs went for about 1600$ - now - try like 8 grand or more!
your friend
Mike

softparade

Who would have the balls to even think about opening a 52 Topps pack? Wonder how many Mantels are in sealed packs still .....
Those packs probably stay sealed forever!

ctsoxfan

The other factor to consider here is the timing of the arrival of card grading. We have already established that all of these 80's cards were seriously overproduced. But, remember that even while many of them are being "thrown away" and not taken care of, a large number of the already large population of these cards are being slabbed. Protected for all intents and purposes for generations to come. DSL, 4SC and the like are doing more than their share to preserve a lot of these 80's gems.

When you factor in the large amount of 80's unopened, and the fact that quite a bit of it will be opened with the few valuable cards immediately slabbed, it becomes clear that most of these cards aren't going anywhere. The difference with more vintage issues is that not nearly as much of it survived in gradeable condition until the early 90's or so - and the advent of grading.

Stone193

<< <i>Those packs probably stay sealed forever! >>


Actually, except for the recent Mastro auction where there was a complete box and supposedly high numbers, the only packs I have seen in like the last 10 years have been series 1. Having said that, back around 1997 or so, a guy opened one of those packs and pulled the most perfect Pafko known to all man-kind! It garnered a 10 at PSA. It sold at auction for like 84K in 1998 if memory serves me.
your friend
Mike

DeutscherGeist

Stone,

Thanks for the links! I am interested in buying unopened material, but I really needed a trusted source for it. Ebay is good for PSA cards.
Another dealer I find honest are Krukcards on ebay. They sell a variety of stuff and some unopened material. Someone on the board bought an 1984 fleer update set--it is very easy to search--but he got a PSA 9 on the Clemens and other key cards!

I guess even though a lot of 80's stuff is being thrown away and abused, too many are slabbed. Sad reality in a way. However, at least one can buy a box of 1988 fleer for dirt cheap and just have a fun day opening packs like when we were teenagers. Now that was fun!!

helionaut

<< <i>Who would have the balls to even think about opening a 52 Topps pack? Wonder how many Mantels are in sealed packs still .....
Those packs probably stay sealed forever! >>



Some people do. It's been a while, but every once in a while a story circulates of a $5K pack being opened. My favorite was the guy whose mother was a tobacco factory worker and had kept a couple dozen Piedmont packs with the T-206s inside. Some were sold sealed, but others got opened. I think one of them contained a Cobb, though they weren't in great condition from 85 years of tobacco staining through.

TheCARDKid

Supply and demand tell the whole story.

The supply of cards from the 80's could be reduced in high grade if collectors start buying the card and not the holder. It seems inevitable as more 10's come to market.

If you looked at 50 or 100 PSA 10 rc's, not all of them are the same. Some are 52/48, some have small dots or imperfections. Truely "perfect" cards would be fairly rare (especially during the early 80's, look at the Henderson Rookie).

If you combine a lower supply of Gem Mint cards with more demand (i.e. kids that bought during the 80's making more money in the future and reliving their childhood) then you could see higher prices.

On the other hand, you could just buy up all of the excess cases of the 80's and use them for firewood Who say's you have to live with 4 million Barry Bonds Rookies.....

JERO

It is all supply/demand as stated in an earlier post. Perfect example is the 52 topps mantle. This card is influenced greatly by demand. There are around 700 PSA examples, yet you can't find a dog for much under $2,000. Every card show you go to will have this card. there is almost always a legit one on ebay. This card is not that "rare". I'm working on a 38 goudey set and out of 48 cards in the set, a grand total of 1700 have been graded by PSA. Some commons have a TOTAL pop under 20, for a card almost 70 years old. Yet despite this, I picked up a PSA 7 common with only 4 graded higher for around $200. It is very likely that the 8's will never come up for sale... ever. This is indeed rare. But a perfect example of less demand. This is why I think you will continue to see a shift to vintage issues (pre 1969 or so it seems) as time passes on. There simply are not many pre war cards available, period. All it takes is a relative small influx of aggresive buyers for a certain set and the potential for price gains is enormous. If your looking for long term investment potential, vintage is where its all at. At a card show in chicago i attended recently, there were dealers with the 80's rookies in bulk lots. 89 Fleer randy johnson rookies by the hundred, and this guy prob had a few thousand. Even barry bonds was in bulk. The supply side is soooooooo great for anything post 83 in my opinion, these cards will likely NEVER be worth much outside of low pop "10" cards. It doesn't matter how great the player is, if he is a HOFer, breaks this or that record, the supply is just so grotesque the value will peak early, stagnate then drop. I can get gwynn, boggs, sandberg, mattingly, etc... rookies cheaper NOW then when I was a kid in the late 80's. So factor in inflation, and these cards have really gone down the toilet. I still remember right after jose canseco got his 40/40 i was in my childhood card shop in new albany indiana and the owner was yelling out "no canseco cards for less than a dollar!!" Because all of us kids were clamoring over them. Oh, the 80s... Now they prob are a nickel each. As for the newest issues, its almost like the companies are drowning in gimmicks to sell it. I'm just waiting for cards with diamond dust or diamonds encrusted in them for $250/pack. Its rediculous... and short sighted.

so in short, don't hold your breath. the 80's are going nowhere. as the 90's, and most things newer after you give it a few years on the market.

JERO