1968 Kahn's

jimtb

I was looking for a little info on the 1968 Kahn's. I'm sure there's an expert on the subject here. I notice that there wasn't a set listed on the registry. Is it a difficult set? They seem to be graded with and without a tab? It seemed like it might be a cool oddball set to go after. Thanks for the help!
Jim

bobsbbcards

Hi Jim,

I don't know if I qualify as an expert on the set or not, but I'll give it a go anyway.

Set is either comprised of 38 cards (basic set), 55 cards (master set), or 56 cards (master set+). The 38 normal sized yellow cards aren't too hard to find (there's a raw batch on eBay right now, and there's been a rash of graded cards in the last month or so). The remaining 17 variations (or 18 which I'll get to in a minute) consist of smaller cards (same width, but cropped shorter vertically), red striped cards, and a multi-color striped Maloney card. The variations are much hard to find, graded or ungraded.

The 18th variation (which I've never seen) is the Ron Santo red striped version. I've seen two complete sets for sale that are missing this card but have all the other variations. In the Copeland auction (from 1991), his 1969 set had all of the variations but it was missing the Santo red striped version (hmmmmm). I tend to think that there might be one red striped Santo that some people think is either part of the 1969 set or the 1968 set, but I don't think there are two (if somebody has a red striped Kahn's Santo, please post a scan). If the Santo has a 100th anniversary major league patch on his chest, it's a '69.

I've seen (recently on eBay for that matter) Kahn's cards consistently mislabeled, especially by SGC. PSA does a much better job figuring out which pose goes to which year. It is difficult to tell since the later issues, including the '68s, are blank backed. Best source for good descriptions of the cards for each year is the larger end-of-year Beckett catalog (like SCD's Standard Catalog which doesn't show the pose differences). Whoever put together the checklist on Kahn's for Beckett had a definite fondness for these issues. Another pretty good source is the checklists at www.oldbaseball.com. The oldbaseball.com list doesn't differentiate between stripe colors. Here's a link to the 68s.

1968 Kahn's

It doesn't seem to be too hard to get good grades on Kahn's cards with the tab present. PSA also doesn't seem to be too strict on the way the bottom of the card is trimmed.

I can post a scan of any of the cards (except for the red Santo). Scan was posted of the '68 Bench a few days ago by jrdolan if you want to look for that thread.

Bob

jimtb

Great info Bob! It was the raw listings on ebay that prompted this post. I'll do a little research on the sites you listed.
Thanks!
Jim

jrdolan

This is the Bench that bobsbbcards was referring to. He knows a lot more about '68 Kahn's than I do, but I wonder about it being easy to get good grades. Only 5 Benches are graded and this is the only NM-MT. I kinda thought they were scarce AND condition-sensitive by virtue of being packed with hot dogs, stuck in a freezer, then usually being torn when the wieners were opened. Please straighten me out if not so.

MorrellMan

Jim - Andy Madec had a complete set with the variations at the Hollypark show earlier this year - I don't know if he had the Santo card, but you can't do any better than taking Bob's info to the bank - he's our resident oddball....no, wait; that didn't come out right...

JRD - nice card, that Bench. I don't know a lot about this issue - I collect '65s....the bottom of that card looks like it's miscut with part of the dotted border showing and part of it gone. Is that the way these cards look? I haven't taken the time before to study them.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>....the bottom of that card looks like it's miscut with part of the dotted border showing and part of it gone. Is that the way these cards look? I haven't taken the time before to study them. >>


Mark,
That's the way the bottom should look. The dotted line on the cards issued between 1966 and 1969 only went about half way across the card. The part that's been cut used to look like the bottom part of the letter "C". This was the tab that attached the wrapper to the top part (again, no longer part of the card). Once the two ends were attached, they wrapped around the pack of hot dogs (on the outside luckily, Kahn's had learned a little bit since the '50s and early '60s).

John,
Since they were on the outside of the hot dog package (outside the plastic wrapper), they didn't experience the wear and tear of the early Kahn's cards. I agree that there have been very few high grade Bench's, but I've seen quite a few nice sets over the years (and more and more are coming up raw on eBay in the last few months). I'd be surprised if there weren't a few more high grade Bench Kahn's cards in the registry come this time next year. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more people doing Kahn's cards in the registry.

Oddball Bob

jrdolan

Bob: I'm glad Kahn's learned from their earlier issues. Too bad Wilson's Franks didn't think of putting the cards on the outside in '54. Still, I would guess many people tore the card when they opened up the wieners in '68. Also, Kahn's cards on eBay are described as "w/tab" but they don't have the extra piece you're describing. I thought the tab was the little thing that runs halfway across the bottom.

How did the "C" thing get detached without damage?

jimtb

When I first saw that Bench, I thought it was miscut as well! I think I need to learn a little more, before I dive in. Thanks for the great info!

bobsbbcards

<< <i>I thought the tab was the little thing that runs halfway across the bottom.

How did the "C" thing get detached without damage? >>


You're right--the tab thing is the cut-off bottom part. I just think people don't have a good name for the big Kahns thing at the top so they call that the tab. There were some beautiful '66 Kahn's complete "cards" at the National and at the Ft. Washington show. Guy didn't have a complete set, so I didn't buy any, but they looked gorgeous. No way PSA would ever grade them though--probably 12 inches from top to bottom.

The wrappers were real easy to get off the hot dog packages. The "C" thing was not glued but was the "male" part that latched onto the "female" part in the top thing (whoa, I'm getting hot!) Kids never needed to rip into these. They just slid right off the side. I remember going through all of the hot dog packages in the store in the late '60s every week looking for Reds players we didn't have. We'd be real careful taking the wrappers (cards) off the hot dogs, and then just as carefully cut them right along the dotted line on top and bottom. We'd then, just as carefully, play with them, put them in our pockets, or leave them on the floors of our rooms to get stepped on. Oh well.

Bob

P.S. Living in Cincinnati makes finding Kahn's cards much easier. Same thing could probably be said for Pittsburgh, Atlanta, or Cleveland.

ajw

Thanks for the history...it's great hearing the stories of odd-ball stuff like this.

My question, though, is why the tab on the top of the card, above the dotted line, is kept? Is there something on the back that makes it significant? If not, it would seem to me that the "card" would be the vaguely square shape with the picture, ending just a tiny bit above the player's name.

bobsbbcards

Back is blank for 1966 thru 1969. Nothing exciting behind the Kahn's logo (no girly pictures or nuthin').

jrdolan

<< <i>Back is blank for 1966 thru 1969. Nothing exciting behind the Kahn's logo (no girly pictures or nuthin'). >>



If anybody ever runs a scam auction on '68 Kahn's, ask if the print on the reverse is the black or red variation. I don't think they'd bother, 'cause there's no Mantle rookie or Honus Wagner on Kahn's -- or reprints to sell as the real thing (I don't think).

ajw

Ok, so there's nothing on the back...which again begs the question: why keep the part above the picture? The dotted line above the name implies that the Kahn's tab should be cut off. No? Why not?

bobsbbcards

I think that the more the card is in the original state, the more desireable. If not, there would be no Hostess complete boxes or panels. There'd be no Hires cards with tab, no milk duds boxes, no Nabisco panels, no Post panels, etc. 1964 Topps Standups would have been punched out (which is what you were supposed to do). Thank goodness collectors don't follow directions well.

In the particular case of the Kahn's cards, I think that the top would be missing more if it was just yellow stripes and did not have such a nice looking Kahn's logo. If the cards had been created by Topps, and the only spot on the card where you could find the word "Topps" was on the top removeable section, you'd find the section attached more often than not.

Bob

Cubfan

As a twist to what ajw is saying.

If I were a 6 year old kid and had Kahn's cards handy, I probably would have cut the card on the dotted line. I would think that would have been the normal mode of the kid growing up (like snapping out the 64 stand up, or peeling off the decals or whatever).

Its great that the cards have been saved in such great form because its almost like they were asking for the card to be cut.

ajw

Bob, I follow what you're saying, but it's not really the same with the Kahn's cards.

It makes perfect sense to keep an entire panel of Hostess cards, as there are three baseball cards pictured.

It makes sense to not punch out the background on a Topps Standup as it is clearly part of the card.

I'm not saying that it's *wrong* to have the tab attached. Maybe it is more desireable, as you say. I just don't understand why anyone would cut the card out but leave the panel. It just doesn't make sense, as Cubfan said.