Poll: How safe is a safety deposit box?
RYK
Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
I visited my coins at the bank today. As my collection grows, I am becoming increasingly...well, paranoid...about the safety of the safety deposit box. How do the rest of you feel about the bank safety deposit box?
0
Comments
my situation is different than yours but from my personal collection standpoint, pretty much the same. The material I buy and sell generally stays in the safe which is backed by insurance for burglary, armed robbery, fire etc as well as serious "home protection" which I know how to use and wouldn't hesitate using.
The personal stuff is in the bank and is also insured.
When we go away on trips as wel just did last week, everything is transferred to the bank.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
flood but the chances of someone gaining possession of the items in a box are remote. Most
banks change the locks in between owners and it requires two keys to access them. Frequently
the boxes are in a larger vault which is secured during off hours. It is important to not let anyone
have access to the key but this alone is insufficient to get in the box.
For most renters the greatest danger is to forget to pay the rent or to get the paperwork fouled
up. Even here though the bank has a lenghty process they are required to go through before
they can drill it and turn the contents over to the state. This probably varies by state but in Ind-
iana it takes years to open these boxes.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
<< <i>4. Keep them at home in a safe...and we don't need no stinkin' insurance. >>
Be sure to keep you life insurance up to date, though.
It's not safe to your coins nor your person to keep valuables in the house.
Biometric gets you into the area, with passcode. Key gets you into the box.
Only 1 key needed now.
Once someone gets into the backroom (say they get another box there and then try to get into yours) it is fair game, but I would hope it isn't as bad as it appears.
I still think it is pretty safe (major bank and branch, good neighborhood but not rich, not overly large branch so it is more "cozy")
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The bank does not have a master key that opens a box, it only opens one side. When you rent the box all keys are given to you. The only way the bank can get in is to drill it. Another misconception is that the bank insures the contents, it does not. The idea of having a lock box is so that only you know and those you want to know have any idea what is in it and that it has some degree of protection.
What if the burglars don't want you to be able to identify them? Everyday people are killed in their homes because of this reason AFTER they gave up the goods. Anyone who has kids has to be terrified that they could be used as hostages. Hell, the Clutter family was murdered IN COLD BLOOD in Kansas in 1954, and that was unheard of then. Nowadays there is so little respect for human life that they will take you, your kids and your valuables...then grab a few beers from the fridge and casually drive away.
Nothing is 100%, but a bank is as good as it gets. If it isn't enough you may rethink owning valuables and collect funny looking potato chips.
I'm just saying this so people don't get a false sense of security. Yes, you can insure your coins...but you can't insure your family's lives against insanity. I hope my point is understood.
I agree with saintguru - I would never have my stuff at home for just the reasons he states. And $2 per $100 is crazy to pay to insure against the very low odds that damage or theft occurs in a bank's safe deposit box.
I just changed from the Bank of America. Went to another bank. Went from $200 per yr to $40 per yr. (big box)
Like Mr. Earlygold, I move em around a bit. ALWAYS in bank if out of town. ALWAYS MOST in the bank at all times.
BofA began filling my cards up. Then they lost track. Then I told em to start a NEW card. Then they began stapling them together. It became a mess. I tole em AGAIN to start a new card and FILE the filled up ones.
They can't DOOOO that. They could get LOSSSSTTT. So what happens? BINGO.....they get LOST.
They start ANOTHER card. Then they find the old ones. NOW they have TWO batches. Then they can't figger out WHICH ones to have me sign. Sometimes I have to show license. Even to the teller who took our COIN SHOP deposits for YEARS. Policy! Final straw was when they turned "cop" on me and it was no longer good enuff that I had been with em since 1959 and I had to REMOVE THE LICENSE FROM YOUR WALLET SIR!
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........
I changed banks.
ommmmmmmmm........
Bruce, coming from you, that means a lot...but I am still paranoid.
So how do you get safety deposit box insurance? Anyone know?---------------BigE
I just applied online here.
If they see coins goin in and out, who knows who their FAMILY is?
And who goes ....i n t o....t h e.....l i t t l e......r o o m..............every time?
Cover and concealment......this is my FUN hobby.
You talkin to ME?
<< <i>You can put your collection on your homeowners policy - actually it's not that expensive, just have pictures and documentation as to what you've got. >>
Actually, most homeowners insurers will charge you FAR more than specialty insurers like Hugh Wood or Collectibles Insurance Agency. In my case, a rider on my HO policy would have cost me about $300 a year for my coins. The other agencies I mentioned above came it at around $60.
The specialty agencies tend to be better at pricing the risk and being able to spread it around.
I had a few boxes at my bank, but after selling some coins I closed one.
Then a few months later, I tried to get into my box and they wouldn't let me because they couldn't find the signature card (it was on a Saturday).
On Monday it was resolved because the person in charge of the boxes had the cards from when I closed the one box - and she gave me 2 years free rental to make up for the problem.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
Would you pay $2 per $100 to insure your collection against getting hit by lightning? If not, then why would you insure it against theft from the safe deposit box.
<< <i>
Would you pay $2 per $100 to insure your collection against getting hit by lightning? If not, then why would you insure it against theft from the safe deposit box.
The same logic applies in gaurding against economic collapse. If the banks close
their doors your least concern will be getting coins, gold or anything else out of
your safety deposit box. You'd better be able to find a way to eat and protect
yourself. If you want this type of insurance buy dried foods and ammo. If you just
want to protect your valuables then a safety deposit box comes close to complete
protection.
Bill
Banks won't tell you how many break-ins they have had concerning safety deposit boxes. Let's all assume that it is extremely rare but not impossible. Safety deposit box break-ins usually happen in the middle of the night, usually an individual from the cleaning crew etc. (This is what we had heard).
The individual taps out the key locks. Evidently it is fairly easy. Easier than you would think. The individual that hit the bank in our area cleaned out 200 boxes during the night and left disguised as the cleaning crew. He hasn't been caught yet.
AGAIN, my suggestion is still keep it at the bank, but get the Collectible Insurance Policy. Then you're covered on all fronts. Safety for the family, Bank safety, Insured coins, etc. Keep the safe at home for Binoculers! and cameras!
<< <i>Sounds like a good idea earlygold, I would just hate to ever file a claim with them, it would be like stealing from the Boy Scouts
Big E, it's not the ANA that's doing the insuring! If you have a recent Numismatist, check to see if there's a listing otherwise give them a call and they'll refer you to the right place. I insure thru North American Collectibles Assoc./Barb Wingo which is for dealers although maybe they do collectors as well.
You can give here a call and ask as well. She's the best! 1-800-685-6746
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
So the PO gets wise an RETURNS da stuff! To WHO? (yeh, I know...whom) Ta YOU!
Elegant in its simplicity.
Huh? huh, huh, huh???
<< <i>HEY! What about: Mail yer coins to yerself at yer PO box. Registered. Insured. Then LEAVE the slip in yer box. Don't pick it up. Learn to outrun the clerks who chase after you to tell you that you have a registered package. Buy a disguise for 5 bucks at a thrift shop. Become Topstuf da CLOWN who picks up the REAL topstuf's mail.
So the PO gets wise an RETURNS da stuff! To WHO? (yeh, I know...whom) Ta YOU!
Elegant in its simplicity.
Huh? huh, huh, huh??? >>
Want to know the best part about your idea? I actually did it a couple times.
Self Indulgence | Holey Coins | Flickr Photostream
Or a box labeled "JOB APPLICATIONS"
Gettin warmer.
HOWEVER......it don't count unless when you DO pick em up, ya complain about da service.
Well, I am looking at this from another angle - the safety of the coin - not my pocket.
Is it a "better" box? These usually have a higher RH which is very bad for coins - slabbed or not.
What else is in this box? Any paper or cardboard? That would be very bad as well, as these materials will outgass various acidic gases which can tone the coins - slabbed or not.
My .02.
Best,
Billy
<< <i>HEY! What about: Mail yer coins to yerself at yer PO box. Registered. Insured. Then LEAVE the slip in yer box. Don't pick it up. Learn to outrun the clerks who chase after you to tell you that you have a registered package. Buy a disguise for 5 bucks at a thrift shop. Become Topstuf da CLOWN who picks up the REAL topstuf's mail.
So the PO gets wise an RETURNS da stuff! To WHO? (yeh, I know...whom) Ta YOU!
Elegant in its simplicity.
Huh? huh, huh, huh??? >>
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I think back to the great depression and the banks all locking their doors. How would you get your hoard for the "bad times"? >>
In my years as a bank attorney I was directly involved in taking over several failed banks from the FDIC.
The first thing that happens when a bank goes under is that the FDIC holds a private auction among selected "safe and sound" banks. If the failed bank is sold (usually on a Friday evening), it reopens the next business day under the name of the buyer, and your box is, of course, readily available.
In the very rare instance that a bank is so under water that no one will take it, the FDIC makes arrangements with another bank to act as its agent for conducting an orderly disposition of the assets. That includes contacting all account and box holders (at their last known addresses and by newspaper publication) and telling them how long they have to clean out their boxes, or claim their balances. As I recall, there were two banks handled that way in 1983, the year that a then record 53 banks were shut down by the FDIC across the country.
Any boxes that don't get cleaned out are handled like abandoned boxes - they are drilled and the contents turned over to the appropriate state agency in charge of escheated property. The FDIC insured balances of depositors who don't claim them are also escheated. At that point everything except cash is liquidated (Morgans would be considered "cash" worth $1 each, non US coins would be sold, and the handling of US bullion issues would depend on how knowledgeable the people running the show happened to be). A non-interest accruing account is opened in the owner's name at the state agency, in the amount of all cash and realized proceeds of sale of other assets. When (and if) the owner or his/her heirs show up, they get the money.
Bottom line - so long as you keep your address records up-to-date with the bank you will always have an opportunity to claim the contents of your safe deposit box; but if you let those address records go bad, your almost complete date/mintmark set of MS69 Morgans could become a deposit in your name of a $100+ at the state's escheated property office, (the exact amount depending on how many keys or varieties were missing.)
While the odds of it happening to you are remote, it does happen. Frankly all it really takes is two $12/hour bank tellers getting together and hatching a plan. And remember, there is a reason the contents are not insured.
Dave
<< <i>The individual taps out the key locks. Evidently it is fairly easy. Easier than you would think. >>
Wrong!
I've been present at a number of box entries without the customer keys - obeying search warrants, abandoned boxes, etc. The quickest I ever saw a professional locksmith drill one was about 20 minutes. You are drilling out a hardened steel lock mechanism, about 1/2-inch in diameter. Even diamond drills take a while, and using a cobalt drill involves a coffee break half-way through.
An expert with the proper tool was shown to pop the lock in one try. Very little metal shavings left.
Banks don't use the same procedure you are mentioning.
Now even though they shut the doors of the banks the end of the world didn't come like some suggest on this board. This go around it won't be lack of money, it will be too much money that's totally worthless IMO. Hard assests have been currency before Christ and is trusted around the world, you can't barter/work for everything when you need it. If we go into a "great depression" type era gold and silver will be just as good as it was in 1929/1930 IMO.
Bro-in-law is a bank examiner...... DOH