MS68

syraq

It must be a magic grade, or at least the prices are magic. This is not yet another discussion of certified vs uncertified, the results are pretty obvious:

Greece 1973 1dr MS68

And for those who don't remember, a Swiss MS68 coin brought a similar amount:
Swiss 2 frs MS68


So ,how can you tell if a raw coin will slab that high?

GDJMSP

<< <i>So ,how can you tell if a raw coin will slab that high? >>




You can't always. But grading is grading even with world coinage. The real trick isn't knowing how to grade yourself, although it is necessary. The real trick is knowing how the grading companies grade. Then of course you have to find the coins that merit the grade.

JamminJ

Getting an MS68 grade is quite tough. I almost always use 67 as my highest expected grade for business strikes when sending them in, and since I'm always very happy with an MS67 I don't really distinguish between the two. That being said, going from my very limted sample set of MS68s I've made here are some of my thoughts on very high grade coins:

For an MS68 coin you will really need to look closely to see any flaws at all. No hairlines and maybe just one or two of the tiniest contact marks. Super, unimpared luster is required as is a full strike with all the high points completely there. These coins usually jump out at you and scream "NICE." If you see a coin that you would never think of collecting but this example is just so nice that you will make an exception it may be an MS68.

MS67s are as above but usually with just one little flaw that's fairly easy to spot. Maybe its a single contact mark, slightly mellowed luster or a bit of weakness on the highest points (especially true with high relief coins). Very appealing toning can sometimes bump a coin up to a 67.

MS66s will have one or two have small but obvious flaws, and so on down the line.

-JamminJ

agraded

So, how can you tell if a raw coin will slab that high?

Submit one that looks two grades higher and say a little prayer.

syraq

MS66s will have one or two have small but obvious flaws, and so on down the line.


I believe you if you say so. It's important to explain to other Darksiders, that this coin, is an $5 coin in gem unc.The buyer of this example is a friend of mine who, like all of us, has these coins already. So I said "why"? And he said, that he had himself submitted quite a few coins from this period,from original bank rolls that he broke, but never got a better grade than 66. If your coin was a 67 it wouldn't have reached such astronomical heights.



JamminJ, you're guilty of contaminating the Darkside with microgrades and their consequences. What could you possibly have to say to defend yourself?

JamminJ

<< <i>JamminJ, you're guilty of contaminating the Darkside with microgrades and their consequences. What could you possibly have to say to defend yourself? >>



I will use the proceeds to buy thalers.

-JamminJ

MacCrimmon

MS68? The fields will be virtually unimpaired. The lustre will swirl around and smack you in the eyes. The devices will be nearly devoid of marks on the central areas. Silver, cu-ni, and nickel (if superbly struck) have the best shots at MS68.

You're as likely to win the lottery than for gold and/or copper to come in as MS68 at PCGS. If you do, just say the price is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.



<< <i>I will use the proceeds to buy thalers. - JamminJ >>



I will use any Swiss proceeds to buy more nice Swiss, and VICTORIA.

syraq

Mac, I believe that only post WWII coins can achieve this grade. And the smaller their size, the better I think the chances are. JamminJ's most coins for sale, are tiny coins, yes?

JamminJ

<< <i>Mac, I believe that only post WWII coins can achieve this grade. >>



You may be right about that. I've made several MS67s from before the first world war era but never a MS68.

The earliest MS67 graded coin I have was a 1791 Brandenburg-Ansbach pfennig that gmarguli submitted.

-JamminJ

ajaan

Is it easier to get a MS68 grade if the coin is toned?

JamminJ

<< <i>Is it easier to get a MS68 grade if the coin is toned? >>



Hard to tell, my sample set of MS68s is just three (and one MS69) with all of them being white.

Nice toning can definitely help bump a coin from 66 to 67, especially at NGC. Unfortunately, I've also had ugly toning drop a coin from MS67 to MS64.

-JamminJ

MacCrimmon

Dimitri, to date I've submitted 4 coins (pre-WWII) if I recall which have been graded MS68 by PCGS; 1904 SP68 - 10R, 1909 SP68 - 10R, 1920 MS68 - 1/2 Fr, and the 1936 MS68 - 1 Franc.

Also, I think 2 SP68 WWII era 1/2 francs, and the largest coin, a 1951 SP68 5 franc. So, yes, the tendency is for the smaller coins to more likely be 68s. The 1 franc and 5 franc pieces are the only "quarter size" and up that I've submitted to hit 68.

syraq

These are some nice results, both of you! It must be a kick to get a 68.

MacCrimmon

There are several early 1800s Kanton coins (Bern and Aargau) which have been graded 68 and 69 by the TPGs. These were obviously "hoard" pieces probably kept together by the banking families for 150+ years......as they say, "hot off the press".

What Jamminj said on the toning.

ajaan

Dimitri, why do you have a photo of aethelred as your icon?

syraq

I don't know, it's all cosmicdebris' fault.

JamminJ

Here's another common coin that brought big bucks in an MS68 holder, a Weimar 50 pfennig. I beleive the catalog value for this coin is $9 in BU.

I was blown away bidding on this coin.

-JamminJ

mdwoods

<< <i>Is it easier to get a MS68 grade if the coin is toned? >>



If the toning is very attractive and hides any marks, it would be easier for a toned coin to be graded MS68. A blast white coin shows every little mark so it has to be cleaner, sometimes, than a toned coin. Some toning would bring the grade down if it were ugly enough.

wildjag

<< <i>Here's another common coin that brought big bucks in an MS68 holder, a Weimar 50 pfennig. I beleive the catalog value for this coin is $9 in BU.

I was blown away bidding on this coin.

-JamminJ >>



I had a snipe ready on this coin as well, and was sure no one was going to bid this much for the coin. The bidding was way over me before I could even bid

NGC shows a population of 54 of these coins and all of them are MS68's

JamminJ

That's a lot of MS68 coins! With so many, it might be best neither of us won the coin.

It never occured to me to check the NGC population report, I didn't think that thing had been updated in years.

-JamminJ

wildjag

Well I thought it was worth $35, but not much more than that. With that many in the population I think we will get a chance again soon. Just tell me not to bid against you so it costs us less

I thought the NGC website says it updates weekly, or is it weakly?

JamminJ

I saw an arbitage opportunity with that coin. With a high opening bid and no paypal I was hoping sneak in and get it at the opeining bid. Resell in a few weeks with a one cent open and no reserve and hope for the best.



<< <i>I thought the NGC website says it updates weekly, or is it weakly? >>


Unless they've improved lately the Worlc Coin Census was low on their priority list. I'll check some of my recetnly certified stuff to see if it's been entered.

-JamminJ

syraq

There's a big number of coins that do not enter NGC's census,simply because the owners of the coins don't want the exposure. And then there's the rest, that does not enter, because this census never gets updated, at least for some countries such as Greece.I'd be very surprised if any of JamminJ's coins are in.

wildjag

So your saying if the pop says there are 54, then in reality there could be many more

syraq

If you're asking me, I'd say yes.


And BTW, I'd like to congratulate Mac once again, I've reread his posts and getting an SP68 grade for a big coin such as the Swiss 5fr is no small feat!

MacCrimmon

I submitted a few "test" coins in August of 2003 and they are still not on the NGC census list.....
Specifically, a 1911 Swiss franc in SP67......at least it wasn't there a month ago.

D. Lange mentioned this in a recent update, i.e., they don't have the resources presently.

MacCrimmon

Thanks, syraq.

Here's a so-so pic from it's pre-slab days.

guysmy

Niiiice!

coinkat

Not to be critical of TPG, but it is often difficult to predict how a (business strike) coin will grade at the MS66 and higher level. I have had some disappointments with World Coins at even the 64 and higher level. It really gets subjective.

Askari

<< <i>So, how can you tell if a raw coin will slab that high?

Submit one that looks two grades higher and say a little prayer. >>

I agree!!


Pre-WWII, 68s become increasingly hard to come by. Pre-WWI, MS-66 is about as high as they go unless you get a first strike from fresh dies. I have an 1890 GEA 1/4 Rupie that is the earliest '68' I've acquired. This is a business strike, but was probably an early one from the original proof dies.

SYRACUSIAN

<< So, how can you tell if a raw coin will slab that high?

Submit one that looks two grades higher and say a little prayer. >>

I agree!!








Well, I did what you told me and it worked!


My first 68, with a little bit of help from Mac.

JamminJ

<< <i>Well, I did what you told me and it worked!


My first 68, with a little bit of help from Mac. >>



Congrats! I'll bet you do well with that coin.

SYRACUSIAN

Thanks, it would be interesting to compare the results once it's over and see how much less than yours it will fetch. Blame it on Moldavia.

bosox

"Pre-WWII, 68s become increasingly hard to come by. Pre-WWI, MS-66 is about as high as they go unless you get a first strike from fresh dies. I have an 1890 GEA 1/4 Rupie that is the earliest '68' I've acquired. This is a business strike, but was probably an early one from the original proof dies."

I agree, this one is PCGS 66RB and very scarce in this condition.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>My first 68, with a little bit of help from Mac. >>



I did charge you at least $50, didn't I!!!!!

You see, I really do sell nice coins, and yes, I buy 95% raw. That '65 was from a stellar original UBS roll.

Congrats!!

wybrit

That '65 was from a stellar original UBS roll.

It just proves my point. Mac's got rolls!!

weresteve

With all this talk about getting your first MS68 ... was wondering if anybody besides myself has hit their first MS69 on the darkside ....

21927683 1989 20p Gr.Britain MS69

Got my first 'You Suck' because of this coin ... or so I would suspect.

Steve

SYRACUSIAN

You would suspect right.


Actually, these are the words of JamminJ in the first page of this old resuscitated thread (in a reply to ajaan):

Hard to tell, my sample set of MS68s is just three (and one MS69) with all of them being white.


And I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Mac collects early 20th century 69s exclusively.


The thing to keep in mind though, is that these coins are not very recent, and they do not come from mint or proof sets. Just regular coins.

JamminJ

<< <i>Actually, these are the words of JamminJ in the first page of this old resuscitated thread (in a reply to ajaan):
Hard to tell, my sample set of MS68s is just three (and one MS69) with all of them being white.
>>



I've really ramped up by coin certification this year and made plenty of 69s (and one 70). They're not that tough from fairly recent mint sets or NCLT. Coins made for actual circulation, now those are special in MS68+.

Here's my most recent MS69:

coinrookie

Pre WWII 68`s are tough but WWII era 68`s are not a walk in the park either atleast for Swiss pieces. I have quite few 66`s and a ms67 or two. Only 1 Sp68 1943 1/2 franc and that from The WEE Mouse.What a beauty.

Steve

ccrdragon

Best I've got is an 1893 Guernsey 1DBL in MS67RD. This is the only example that I haev where all 3 of the lions on the obverse are completely struck, esp in the facial area. The only reason that I can see for the coin not getting a 68 is that there are a couple of tiny tics on the letters on the reverse and the mint-mark is not struck as well as the rest of the coin.

oreville

I have a few Canadian and Newfoundland large cents and dimes, all from the 1910-1919 era that were graded MS-68 by PCGS. They were graded by PCGS prior to 1998.

One of them is an awesome dime in which 1/2 of the coin is substantially toned and the other half is almost stone white. The difference in the toning is separated by a crescent moon shaped pattern.