At What Point Do You Move On?

ajia

Although I am trying to concentrate on Morgans I am nearing the crossroad......

At some point in time you come to the realization that it is too costly to continue with a certain registry set......at what point did you decide it was time to move on to another denomination?
Being #1 on most sets is VERY costly, so was it a certain number....top 10, top 25, top 50. Or was it when the next coin to upgrade your set was going to put you back hundreds if not thousands of dollars?

Dollars are nice & as soon as I 'finish' with Morgans I will finish a Peace set, but I am trying to decide when that will be.

badger

I just turned a corner on my proof Jeffs. I have listed coins that I think are interesting or have great eye appeal versus just grade. As a result, my Jeff Basic Proofs ranking is slipping, but I find the collection more to my liking.

I am also considering posting all cameos in my 1950-1964 Proof series. It would lower my point total because my cameo coins do not rate as high as the non cameos.

I guess I'm moving away from point totals.

haletj

Move on once you have a set you are happy with regardless of its ranking, but of course your goal has to be within your budget. For me having a set where all the coins are nice for the grade would be my goal. Any coin I didn't think was nice enough for the grade I would still look for a better one, whether its the same grade or even next grade.

bigFatJohn

I have been asking myself the same question, I have had my FBL Franklins for good long while before I even entered them in the Registry.

Now that I entered them they are at #10, I have sent lots of time and money trying to make both the 1952-S MS66FBL and the 1959 MS66FBL.

I chased the 1953-S MS65FBL for a couple of years and gave up on that.

Now I wonder if I want to chase the 1952-S MS66FBL and or the 1959 MS66FBL anymore.

I have found listing of both coins over the last year but the coins had a 5K or more price tag and the eye appeal of the coins that hit the market were really not representative of the 5K price tag.

I can't get myself to buy the label instead of the coin so I think I am waisting time and money frying to make them or find them in the market.

I am spending most of my time on Morgan's now I find them very interesting and with all the VAM's I learn something new everyday.

With the Morgan's even if you can't get a Key Date because of price or availability you can always search for VAM so offer more opportunities to keep going.

I don't have the answer, I never cared about rankings in the registry because the rankings are meaningless without factoring in Eye Appeal of the Coin. I know that making the ranking more subjective but Coin Grading is subjective anyway so why not add another subjective area to the registry.

This is a interesting topic but I think eah person has to do what they think is right for them.

ajia

The consensus seems to be look at the coin, not the grade.

But if this is true, why not collect raw coins only? Surely you would save LOTS of $$$ doing this. Like it or not slabbed coins, especially PCGS, have a premium attached to them.

badger, you don't mind having physical damage (however slight) to a coin as long as it is a cameo? Say a PR66CAM over a PR68? Also, you're just going in a different direction, even with the cameo's, you'll get to a point where the decision will have to be made whether to go on or not...any idea when that would be?

haletj, what happens when you're never happy!
I would be happy with #1, but that will NEVER happen. Wrestling with the thought of when that would be.

bigFatJohn, I think you are where I think I will be soon. I am trying to make a few dates & finding it frustrating spending the grading fees & not making it! Some of these I am not even looking for a perticular grade, the coins are BB!!! I need better eyes!

I do want to finish off my set (some biggies still to go), and maybe upgrading a few more....but I can't justify spending the thousands it would take to continue moving up the registry ladder.

I realize this is a personal opinion & I thank all that responded and will respond.

bigFatJohn

Purchasing raw coins only is a very risky business for me although what you said makes sense.

The problem is that there are so many crooks and thieves out there that can clean these coins and alter them in ways that are very hard to detect.

Maybe it's just my bad luck but most raw coins I have bought have been cleaned or altered and have been in so many hands it is hard to hold anybody responsible.

I don't really send coins to PCGS because of added value because I send them in so there can verify the coin has not been altered, that they do well.

As to Grading and value, I can go back and really look at my coins and see that some probably shouldn't be MS66 but should be MS65 and visa versa, it is like Olympic Judging in Figure Skating. The best coin doesn't get the best grade.

My, opinion is the problem stems from the people getting into this hobby to make a fast buck, that is what has caused all this crack out business and regrading and has causes the quality of grading to decrease. The services are all backed up with thousand of coins beig submitted daily. The pop reports probably don't reflect reality and coin values are really not reflective of the pops.

I really think these Registry Programmers are great for two paries the Grading Compaines because they use them to increase their revernue by getting more coins submitted. The other party is the guy that like to strut around with his chest out says look at my ranking in the registry.

I know I entered my Franklins but I am sure that I will keep them there I just don't really think this system adds anything to the hobby.

haletj

<< <i>haletj, what happens when you're never happy! >>


I have that problem too. I haven't yet completed a set for I keep making my goal a little higher, a little higher. Here's an idea, if the next upgrade costs x, I guess if you think, what else could I buy for x, and something else seems more desirable, then that's time to move on. For me I'm working on a high grade Lincoln Memorial set, and I keep managing to find an improvement here or there (raw), but when the time comes that I can't, and the only improvements are pcgs pop tops costing $100's or even $1000's, I think that's when my set will be done. I'm going to the post office later today to pick up a package of about 50 more rolls, and it will be interesting to see how many improvements I make to my set. This could be it for buying rolls if I can't make any!

bigFatJohn

I hope your rolls have a bunch of gems.

I used to buy a lot of rolls and a lot of Mint Sets but again, I have noticed starting this year that more or more crooks are getting involved in the roll business and Mint Set Business. I have gotten stuck with 10 rolls of Morgans that were advertised and sold as Original BU Rolls, and in actuaity they where AU coins at best that had been dipped and noticably dipped. I was able to resell them but I took about a 50% loss on the deal.

The same thing is happening with the older double mint set that came in the open Cardboard Holders, guys out there are substituing coins with marginal BU or AU coins, I got stuck with on 1952 Mint Set advertised and priced as original that had two 1954 Quarters in it and the other coins were just marginal 52's I am sure they were not original Mint Set Coins.

As this hobby gets more and more popular it attracts more and more crooks and thieves. You really have no way of knowing about these guys either because they have ways of fixing feedback on Ebay and when you report these crooks to Ebay, they don't do anything. Ebay, gets there percentage whether the buyer gets cheated or not.

I is affecting Big companies as well like Heritage, they will list some of the most unappealing coins at above market price. I have a couple of Dealers that I know and trust and I only buy from them. I have been collecting coins for over 30 years and I do it because I love the Beauty of the rare coins and each coin has a history and each set has a history. I am getting to the point though where I enjoy reading about the history of the coins then trying to buy them in this market.

John

haletj

Thanks John for the advice and well wishes. Yeah, I think a lot of the rolls and stuff on ebay is not good. Most of my nicest Lincoln rolls, and coins from mint sets, all came from a shop near where I lived where the dealer certainly wasn't intrested in searching them beforehand. I've tried out about 4 or 5 ebay sellers recently to see what I could find. I think those older mint sets one would have to see them in person before buying them (and know what to look for for originality).

ajia

haletj, I think you've hit th enail on the head!
I want to finish the set...100%! Then I think it will be time to move on. At that point the upgrades would cost $500+ & I think I would rather spend that type of money on finishing other sets startng with Peace dollars & occasionally picking up others (other than Morgans).

bFJ, boy don't get me starting on this whole TPG routine....it's like a bad habit, you know it's not right yet you do it anyways!
Who in their right mind would spend $12 on a $3 coin? I know, if it comes back MS70 it's worth a few hundred......makes me think the grading services throw out an MS70 every once in a while so collectors (& dealers) keep those $3 coins coming. What would happen if only MS69's where made? How many 'experts' can honestly see the difference between a 69 & 70?

Thanks again guys for your replies....

bigFatJohn

Your right with the MS70 versus MS89 and I believe this totally but I can't prove it because I have asked both PCGS and NGC for these records and they will not provide them.

I believe that the bigger dealers that submit coins in bulk and have agreements with both NGC and PCGS get better grades then us guys that submit in smaller amounts.

I have written PCGS and NGC extensively on this matter and they will not budge on supplying this info, that just makes me further believe that they don't want the truth to be known.

That's why some coins that you study closely truly don't deserve the grades they have and other coins are undergraded. I don't believe the Graders are bad people or bad graders I believe they have to follow the procedures when grading coins for these large dealers that submit in bulk under agreements.

This was a great thread, good input from all thanks.

coolkarma

I certainly don't know when to "move on". I'm just learning to focus more on a few sets My goal is to be on the "first page" for each registry set, the top 20. That's helping me learn to focus. Except for my Buffalo nickels (#22 I believe), I think I'm there

For my proof Jeffersons I'm heading in the same direction Badger appears to have gone, with a twist. I'm going to take my 1938-64 proof Jeffs with Varieties to be all cameo or at least frosted, including 1938-42. I'll lose a few "points", but the coins match much better

For the 1938-64 proof Jeffs without varieties, I'll leave them as a mixture, leaning toward the non-cameo toned coins for 1938-42 - some of them also are beautiful. I may pursue making all the 1938-42 coins be non-cameo. Of course, this may change but that's my plan for now

Mistercoinman

Hi Augie, My two cents! When I started collecting a had to have one of everything, and I soon learned that could be a daunting task. I now try to focus on a few sets and sell off the coins that I thought other forum members could use. I now have about 6 sets that I truely enjoy and leave the rest to the future. When I start a set I ask myself what is my goal and when I reach it, I either move on or re-focus on the set with a new goal. Right now a set is complete when its' 100%, not to say I don't try and upgrade if a suitable option becomes available, but never mortgage the house for it. Fred

badger

ajai -

Since there are so few prewar cameos, I wanted to include those in the registry. These don't get the bonus points they deserve based on scarcity. That's why I prefer the prewar cameos.

As far as when to move on?? I guess when I get bored with series. I admit that some of the classics look interesting, but the $ required to build even low grade sets seems high. However, may be more of an investment?

For now, I'm sticking with the proofs.

COINDOG

For more than 10 years, morgans have not been collectible as a complete set. the coins ( in decent grades ) are either not available, or they are too expensive.
this becomes apparent when sets first turn into short sets, then type sets or type coins.
what i did with my morgans was to sell thrm, except for the keys, and semi- keys.
Most people colect these coins as type, so the nice coins have vanished many years ago as type coins !!!

bigFatJohn

CoinDog:

I really agree with you on the Morgan's I also love them but some are just out of reach and I also go after the Key Dates but I collect some common dates that have some special attraction. If I find a Black Beauty in a Common Date I will go for that or if a coin has some real Mirrored type Rainbow toning I will go for those. That's the thing I like most about the Morgan's with the different VAM's that are out there in all dates building the whole set is not as interesting to me as getting the most beautiful and coins that are out there.

Whether or not I make any money on my approach or not is not my goal my goal is to just collect as many different types of Beautiful Morgans along with really nice key dates.

BAJJERFAN

I would try to focus on one set and do that as well as I could rather than doing an average job on several sets. If you collect within a budget as most of us do then its not too hard to study the price guides and decide on either how many coins to include in your set or decide about how much per coin you can afford. Rather than give up on a set I would just put it aside and come back to it later.

bigFatJohn

BajjerFan:

I agree with what you said about budget and studying prices, to a point. Prices are just trends they don't tell you what the unique coins are all about, their value is only expressed by the buyer.

Also, BajjerFan you kind of make collecting these set out to be a job. What's the big deal about completing a set before you go on to others. The Master Coin Collector has to have patience, sure if the goal is simply to complete a collection so you post it on the Registry that strategy is ok. But what does it really mean the Registry doesn't reflect since it doesn't account for the Eye Appeal of the Coin.

It is just a ranking but tells you nothing what the set looks like, I have see some of the ugliest coins in MS66 and MS67 Holders. What is the percentage of people that post images of there set in the Registry. Look at the FBL Franklins it is very low, so you a number but it is meaningless.

Completing sets can happen but there is no time limit if you can't find the coin you want again Patience is the key.

BAJJERFAN

Well I never said that you should just go out and buy any old 1885 Morgan in a PCGS 65 holder just to fill a hole in a registry set. If you set a goal of all common dates in MS65 and the tougher dates in somewhat lower grades you can use the price guides to give yourself a rough estimate of just what your dream set might cost. If the guides say a certain set might set you back $60K to $80K and you have an annual budget of $3K then its obvious that you need to re-evaluate your collecting goals. Most folks like high eye appeal coins and others may focus on toning or blast white coins or coins with some other special characteristic. If a 1893-s is a stumbling block a collector can save up the funds, move on to something else until maybe prices soften or resign himself to the fact that he may never have one.

bigFatJohn

Hey BajjerMan:

Sorry if I misinterpretted your first posting but it kind of sounded that way to me.

I pretty much agree with your posting but I don't know that I understand the destinction you made about Eye Appeal, unless again I am misinterpretting what you are saying. Eye Appeal can be any of the the thing you mentioned Blast White, Rainbow Toning, etc. it is truly subjective but nasty looking mint set toners that even have in some cases have milk spots on top of the muddy toning I don't believe should be graded as gems.

The grading of coins is subjective for the most part and all I am saying is that the Beauty or Eye Appeal should be included in the Grade or in my humble opinion the Registry and it's rankings are worthless. Because you can have a set that is Graded Technically High that nobody wants to look at. The Registry without accounting for the look of the coins is like Olympic Figure Skating, the best Skater doesn't usually win.

BAJJERFAN

Eye appeal means different things to different people. There are lots of ugly toners and lots of pretty ones. I like the blast white coins but I also like the Morgans with the light gold or peripheral toning. Nice rainbow or end roll toners work too. Certain kinds of album toning are also attractive. I would collect the nicest I could find that fit my collecting goals and budget. Rank in the Registry is nice but it is just one aspect of collecting. Since I tend to focus on just one series my collecting will be largely a continuous upgrading as there are lots of nice Morgans still out there.