Gregory medal

ormandh

Anyone know anything about this? How would I find out the value of this medal? Any help would greatly be appretiated.-Dan

Askari

I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgeable about Vatican medals. It looks like it might be from the first half of the 19th century. It's a very nice design -- but the green gunk seriously diminishes its value. Elverno might know more.

ormandh

I bought this medal for $1.50 so I am sure that it is worth more than that. Thanks for the info. Anyone else that can give me some insight into what it WOULD be worth if it did not have the affliction on the obverse? Who made the medal?-Dan

Askari

The artist's name, if it appears would be engraved somewhere near the rim on the obv. (or, less likely, the rev.). It could be on the base of the bust or it could be those letters that look like "P.P." or "P.R." or possibly obscured by the gunk. I can't see anything obvious from your scans.

ormandh

How can I remove that gunk from the coin? What is it? What normally grows on bronze?

Askari

Depends on what it is. Hopefully not PVC. It's very difficult to clean copper or bronze safely and I'm no expert at it. The safest thing is to give it an acetone bath, which will at least halt further deterioration.

FC57Coins

I agree with Mark - Acetone would be the way to go - and unfortunately - when I saw the pic my first reaction was that it WAS PVC.

BigAlan

Easy worth $1.50

goldrush00013

Stick it in a potato over night. It should remove the green funk.

Maybe.

elverno

Sorry Dan, can't seem to narrow it down with either P.P. or P.R. My book on Italian engravers mentions the Pasinati brothers of the Papal States. Forrer mentions a Paolo Pasinati residing in Rome and working as early as the 1880s and as late as 1900 or so. But there's no mention of the Gregory medal in the listing... That's about the only one who makes sense at least among Italian engravers.

Askari

The "P.P." could just be an abbreviated Latin legend.

Aethelred

<< <i>The "P.P." could just be an abbreviated Latin legend. >>



Was "PATER PATRIAE" ever a Papal title?

elverno

Good point about the P.P. being an abbreviation. Peter Patrae (or whatever the Latin is) perhaps...

ormandh

Is the acetone going to change the patina of the coin? I am not experienced in cleaning coins, but it seems that it could damage something on the medal. Do I rinse with water? -Dan

STLNATS

This is a copy of a medal of Gregory XIII, originally issued to commemerate the Massacre of the Huguenots in 1572. According to Roma Resurgens, Papal Medals from the Age of the Baroque, word of the massacre was received by the pope with joy, who "considered it a just punishment by God upon heretics and traitors."

The artist of the medal was Gian Federigo Bonzagni and it has been copied repeatedly since the first issues in a wide variety of medals and with gold and silver wash. To me this looks like a fairly late issue (regular lettering, round flan, etc). This seems by far one of the most popular papal medals to be repeatedly copied and issued; I'm never quite understood why given the reverse theme.

I've seen these with both FP and PP in the obverse exergue. PP would probably be Pater Patrum, or "father of fathers" a common papal title.

This usually trade for $15 & up on ebay with earlier pieces worth a premium.

Stork

Wow--amazing history lessons around here every day!

Askari

Welcome to this forum, STLNATS!! I didn't know you were knowledgeable about papal medals.




<< <i>Is the acetone going to change the patina of the coin? I am not experienced in cleaning coins, but it seems that it could damage something on the medal. Do I rinse with water? -Dan >>

No, it will not affect the patina. Basically, give it dip in a fresh acetone bath in a well-ventilated, flame/spark-free area. It will evaporate quickly. Some people rinse it afterwards, but I don't see much need for that unless there were some loose particles of some sort on it; in any case, if you do rinse it, only use distilled water as tap water has lots of harmful chemicals in dilute suspension which, while they might be safe to drink, can harm your coin, especially when made of reactive medals like bronze and copper.

STLNATS

Thanks!

I'm not sure how knowledgable I am but have got a decent library and several hundred medals 1400-date AE to AV so its easy to fake it!

Anybody else collect these? Anybody got some silvers of John Paul II for sale?

ormandh

Thanks for all of the info guys. -Dan

Askari

I've got a lot of medals myself, but I've been outbid on the last couple of decent Vatican medals (or references on them) I've seen on eBay -- and they don't come up very often.

STLNATS

but I've been outbid on the last couple of decent Vatican medals I've seen on eBay -- and they don't come up very often

In my case, it seems to be either feast or famine with these. Typically it seems if one is listed so will several others. At other times, you won't see anything for some time.

Personally there's not been a lot of interest to me either of late (and frankly I'm focusing more on my St Louis NBNs since several of interest have come to light recently), probably because I'm after specific targets, which don't come up that often. Specifically:

1. A nice example for each pope since Martin in the 1417s, representing the traditional run of contemporary medals. The only pope missing is Pius II, altho I would like to replace my Euguene which is an aftercast.2. A silver annual medal for each year, 1900 & later. Mostly just missing JP II and a few Pius XII at this point.3. Other nifty pieces which appeal to me, usually tied to New Testement verses or pre 1900 silvers & Sede Vacantes

There are some folks that are very aggressive on general items but I guess everything is relative and to taste.