Ebay canned my counterfit coin auctions

sadysta1

Apperantly it's agains their policy to sell counterfits. But if you sell one and you without saying it's a fake it's OK with them GRRR.............


Dear Tomasz Wojtczak (sady1@erols.com),

We regret to inform you that your eBay auctions:


3938718522 1912 British trade dollar, possible counterfit
3938720105 1896 Morgan counterfit. NO RESERVE
3938722423 1875-S trade dollar nice counterfit. NO RESERVE
3938723680 1873-S, 1875-S trade dollar nice counterfits NO RESERVE



have been ended. All fees associated with these auctions have been credited to your account.

The items you have listed do not appear to be consistent with eBay guidelines.

U.S. federal law strictly prohibits the sale of counterfeit currency and stamps, and equipment designed to make these illegal products. These laws ban not only counterfeit paper money, but counterfeit coins, bank notes, bonds, money orders and other securities. U.S. law also protects foreign currency and stamps from counterfeiters. As a result of these laws, these counterfeit items may not be listed on eBay.

It is against eBay policy to list counterfeit currency and stamps. Any "reproduction," "replica" or "copy" coin (U.S. or foreign) must be plainly and permanently marked with the word COPY in order to comply with U.S. federal law.

For further information about eBay's guidelines regarding counterfeit currency and stamps, please refer to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html

For information on infringing, prohibited or questionable items, please view:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

For more information on why eBay has ended an auction, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-endauction.html

Future auctions listed that fail to meet our listing guidelines will be ended early and repeated violations may jeopardize your account status. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue our relationship, so we respectfully ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Regards,

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay


Let me extend one of my fingers to ebay Grrr.......

braddick

I wonder if the word, fake is ok?

rlawsha

I don't think counterfeit coins should be on eBay period. You should not have even tried to sell a fake coin, acknowledged or not. You may sell one and say it is a fake but you don't have any idea if your buyer will turn around and try to sell it as real. The fakes need to be off of eBay, period.

Dog97

You didn't comply with the implied policy disclaimer by first stating in your listing "I know nothing about coins or grading."

lathmach

Do like all the Ebay liars and thieves do. Don't put the word "counterfeit" in your Ebay ad.
Put in "possible reproduction" or some other such nonsense.

Ray

dorkkarl

that's odd, i've seen quite a few c/f coins listed on ebay as such.

K S

eyoung429

Well, you can get around that by having your entire listing in broken english, or put in a small disclamer "in another time or reality these are quality rare coins"

RKKay

<< <i>that's odd, i've seen quite a few c/f coins listed on ebay as such. >>



They did the same thing to Cammie. If they spent half the time investigating specious selling habits that they spend removing auctions of honest sellers, eBay would be a lot safer. I can't tell you how many counterfeits I've bought for my collection from "legitimate" listings saying they were the real thing.

UncleWiggly

<< <i>I don't think counterfeit coins should be on eBay period. You should not have even tried to sell a fake coin, acknowledged or not. You may sell one and say it is a fake but you don't have any idea if your buyer will turn around and try to sell it as real. The fakes need to be off of eBay, period. >>




Well then, how about this statement: I don't think raw coins should be on eBay period. You should not even try to sell a raw coin, graded or not. You may say it is a MS63 but you don't have any idea if your buyer will turn around and try to sell it as a MS66. The raws need to be off of eBay, period.


Jerry

DennisH

So do coins in third world holders!

JadeRareCoin

I agree with Rick Kay!!! eBay is clueless. They have people who know nothing about coins policing the coin auctions.

mgoodm3

Problem with selling counterfeits labelled as such is that the next seller probably won't and will sell them as real.

BigE

sadysta1, you spelled counterfeit wrong, so someone must have ratted you out-----------------BigE

ms70

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was just something in Coin World saying it's illegal to sell counterfeits.

ss350camaro

I think that as a responsible collector you should no try to sell counterfeit coins at all ............ period.

These objects should be clearly hard tool stamped with something identifying them as not authentic.

And/or destroyed so no one else will be ripped off.

BigGreek

<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was just something in Coin World saying it's illegal to sell counterfeits. >>



Ofcourse its illegal to sell or own counterfiet currency. I don't blame eBay at all
from dropping the auctions as they could be viewed as accomplices in a felony.
If I were you, I would get rid of the coins and avoid them in the future.
Your other option is to engrave or punch the word COPY on the coin and sell
them as reproductions.

Nysoto

There are bust half counterfeits of key dates that are intended to deceive, and counterfeit bust halves that have been documented in a book with a collector base for them. Ebay apparently cannot make the distinction between these. I believe it is illegal to own or sell any counterfeit (someone correct me if I am wrong), eBay is just covering themselves. "Legitimate" counterfeits may have to be sold only through shows or word of mouth.

Bill

relayer

You have to do it like this

dorkkarl

<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was just something in Coin World saying it's illegal to sell counterfeits. >>



<< <i>Ofcourse its illegal to sell or own counterfiet currency. >>

sure wish i knew where this bizarre notion comes from.

look, it is NOT ILLEGAL to own or sell c/f coins, PROVIDED THEY ARE DESCRIBED AS SUCH. otherwise, everyone in every slab co's needs to go to jail right now, becuase i assure you they own c/f's, as do i, as do MANY collectors who use them as reference material.

PLEASE stop perpetuating this myth that it's illegal to sell c/fs, PLEASE. your doing harm than good.

K S

HoshiShoju

The easiest way to get around this (which I have done myself) is go by a Metal Punch that says Copy. Punch the voins on the rim with Copy, Scan that part of the coin as well and you are fine. They say so in the e-mail that you posted. The coin just has to say copy. The Metal Punch I use is small enough to fit on the rim (you gotta work with it to get good at rolling the punch) but as long as it is stamped copy you are fine. And trust me, I didn't lose any money when I sold mine stamped copy.

JadeRareCoin

Or......you could punch all of your genuine coins with a punch that says "not a copy".

Nevermind. That was a bad idea. Back to the drawing board.

mgoodm3

Use the "real" stamp for all of your good stuff.

BigGreek

Let's look at the law and you can decide (I leave out alot but you can see the full text at: http://collectors.org/Library/Hobby_Protection_Act.asp):

Sec. 304.1 Terms defined.

(d) Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government.

Sec. 304.2 General requirement.

Imitation political or numismatic items subject to the Act shall be marked in conformity with the requirements of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder. Any violation of these regulations shall constitute a violation of the Act and of the Federal Trade Commission Act.

Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items.

(a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".
(b) The word "COPY" shall be marked upon the item legibly, conspicuously, and nondeceptively, and in accordance with the further requirements of these regulations.
(1) The word "COPY" shall appear in capital letters, in the English language.
(2) The word "COPY" shall be marked on either the obverse or the reverse surface of the item. It shall not be marked on the edge of the item.
(3) An imitation numismatic item of incusable material shall be incused with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction, and a minimum depth of three-tenths of one millimeter (0.3 mm) or to one-half (1/2) the thickness of the reproduction, whichever is the lesser. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.
(4) An imitation numismatic item composed of nonincusable material shall be imprinted with the word "COPY" in sans-serif letters having a vertical dimension of not less than two millimeters (2.0 mm) or not less than one-sixth of the diameter of the reproduction. The minimum total horizontal dimension of the word "COPY" shall be six millimeters (6.0 mm) or not less than one-half of the diameter of the reproduction.





<< <i>

<< <i>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there was just something in Coin World saying it's illegal to sell counterfeits. >>



<< <i>Ofcourse its illegal to sell or own counterfiet currency. >>

sure wish i knew where this bizarre notion comes from.

look, it is NOT ILLEGAL to own or sell c/f coins, PROVIDED THEY ARE DESCRIBED AS SUCH. otherwise, everyone in every slab co's needs to go to jail right now, becuase i assure you they own c/f's, as do i, as do MANY collectors who use them as reference material.

PLEASE stop perpetuating this myth that it's illegal to sell c/fs, PLEASE. your doing harm than good.

K S >>

BigGreek

One other point.

Anyone who manufactures a counterfeit U.S. coin in any denomination above five cents is subject to the same penalties as all other counterfeiters. Anyone who alters a genuine coin to increase its numismatic value is in violation of Title 18, Section 331 of the United States Code, which is punishable by a fine or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both.

Trooper

Wasn't that act approved in 1973? So, doesn't that mean that anything created after that date must follow the guidelines...What about anything before that date?

Just curious...

Tom

dorkkarl

you have the answer right there: "An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce"

if a coin's properly identified as a c/f, as mine are, it is obviously no longer intended for "introduction into or distribution in commerce"

K S

davefperry

Hobby Protection Act passed in 1964 I think. Stuff before that would be grandfathered but it could be tough to know when a copy was made unless it was dated 2004.

Conder101

Hobby Protection Act was passed in 1973. It does not apply to pieces created before than (of course how do you know when it was created?) So it is only illegal to own unmared counterfeits that have been made since 1973.

EagleEye

I think ebay is right in restricting counterfeits (counterfits too - that misspelling looked to me like an deliberate evasion). By listing those you are no better than the guys from China. This is a problem we are all worried about continuing. Don't add to the problem. (BTW - they are worth $1 or so, I think your trying to gouge the prices too)

1jester

I don't really like playing the devil's advocate (well, sometimes I do ), but contemporary counterfeits are definitely collector's items. People pay sometimes even way more for a counterfeit than the real thing. I'm talking about Darkside coins here, and perhaps someday the same thing will be true of US coins. Anyway, it makes no sense to ban counterfeits, or to try.

That being said, I hate counterfeits, and I even more hate people who know they are selling counterfeits without telling people they are fake. In other words, I hate the cheats and liars as much as the next guy. Counterfeiting is a serious blight on the face of our hobby, and it's sometimes extremely hard to tell a fake coin from a real one. I've bought way too many fake coins thinking they were real (mostly on internet auctions, but sometimes even after studying them with a 16x loupe).

What I decided to do a while back is give all my counterfeits away to a friend who is a dealer, to help him in determining fakes. In other words, help him build a counterfeit collection. Counterfeits have legitimate value and shouldn't be banned. Cheating people should be severely punished, however.