Got Grades: Bitter/Sweet

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 12:40AM

1 21773350 1857-O H10C USA MS66
2 21773351 Columbian 50C 1892 USA Cleaning

I graded the 1857-O half dime as MS-65, so the MS-66 was the "sweet" part of the equation.

The Columbian was the subject of this thread.. I mentioned in my thread that it had a few hairlines and estimated the grade to be PF-60. I have seen proofs with harsher cleaning get certified. Guess that I have to send this one back in.

MICHAELDIXON · November 2, 2004 12:43AM

Dennis,
Since I like you, I'll take the Columbian off your hands. I'll give you.....

.
say.....

.
slabbing fee and....

.
$10.00

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 12:45AM

Michael, thanks for the offer. Let me think about it for a second. (a second passes).......NO!

BigE · November 2, 2004 12:47AM

I'll trade you my PCGS 1886 nickel for it!----------BigE

dorkkarl · November 2, 2004 3:03AM

<< <i>Got Grades: Bitter/Sweet >>

see, i told you that flavored slabs will be the next big thing!

K S

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 3:27AM

My last submission was Sweet-N-Sour.

dan1ecu · November 2, 2004 3:42AM

Perhaps a Presidential Review would be in order. The graders might be erring on the side of caution because it's a valuable piece. It sure is nice looking!

Dan

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 3:44AM

Dan, we were wondering if they bagged it because it would require some research (proof vs. prooflike). I will probably do a presidential review soon. Thanks for the comments.

keets · November 2, 2004 3:48AM

hey Dennis

what do you mean by "It is, in my opinion and according to my research, a proof Columbian Half. There are prooflike Columbians known, but this meets the criteria of a legitimate proof." did yo consult anyone else about it or make the judgement on your own?? being at the ANA it would have been prudent and foolhardy not to have shown it to Anthony Swiatek for certain verification. it's my understanding that there are only a couple of Numismatists who's judgement are relied upon with these proof Columbians, and Anthony is one of them. i've seen several PL's myself.

BTW, since it was BB'd i assume you still have no certainty that it's a proof, aside from "my opinion and according to my research." i hope you'll add a trip to AS as part of the research when the coin returns. it's an important and valuable piece of Numismatic history.

best of luck.

al h.

dragon · November 2, 2004 3:52AM

I too have seen much more harshly cleaned pieces in PCGS holders. Had that been a real rarity or an early proof gold coin, they most likely would have holdered it in a heartbeat, the 'ole double standard again I guess.

Tonelover · November 2, 2004 3:55AM

<< <i>Dan, we were wondering if they bagged it because it would require some research (proof vs. prooflike). >>

Or maybe because it's been cleaned.

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 3:55AM

what do you mean by "It is, in my opinion and according to my research, a proof Columbian Half. There are prooflike Columbians known, but this meets the criteria of a legitimate proof." did yo consult anyone else about it or make the judgement on your own??

Yes, I have consulted with numerous specialists. I have never owned a proof, although I have owned/handled a few prooflike Columbians. Therefore I met with 2 dealers who have actually owned confirmed proofs. One guy, a Boston area dealer, at first said that it "probably wasn't", but then he took a closer look and said, "geesh, I think this is a proof". He has owned several proofs, so he would know. Another dealer said that it was absolutely a proof. A few other people said that it was just prooflike. We have received about 50/50 on the responses. I would have shown Swiatek, but I bought this on the last day at the ANA and he was gone.

MadMarty · November 2, 2004 3:58AM

That will teach you to make fun of my submissions!

Russ · November 2, 2004 3:59AM

You'd think PCGS would be willing to be a little more forgiving on a coin with such a low mintage.

Russ, NCNE

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 4:00AM

Also, our research involved more than just showing it to specialists. We have a large library and did our own digging. Everything points to proof so far, imho. No big deal either way. It's just fun to learn as you go. If it's not a proof, then no big deal. It's still a pretty coin. BTW, I have seen harshly cleaned coins in holders. I think they were a bit harsh, but everyone says that when they get a body bag.

keets · November 2, 2004 4:06AM

hey Dennis

i would cut through all the Mustard and just contact Anthony. he's easy enough to get ahold of, send him the coin for an evaluation and if he concludes it's a genuine proof you don't need to fool around with the Presidential review or anything else. Game-Set-Match. after that, though, things will get interesting!!!!!!

assuming it's not a proof--------Oh Well.

assuming it is a proof, there are options. if it has been (harshly0 cleaned to the point where it has visible hairlines there's really no reason to expect PCGS/NGC to holder it. ANACS will with the attendant net/downgrade. NCS will holder it ungraded but verified. past that................

upstate New York should be the sensible and realistic first phone call, though. really, who knows more about these than AS??? he probably taught all the fine folks that are only giving you a 50/50.

al h.

JadeRareCoin · November 2, 2004 4:09AM

Keets, you are right. I should do that. Maybe I can show him the coin at the Baltimore show......

Or, I could take MadMarty's advice and send it to ACG. That's what he does with all of his body bagged coins.

coinguy1 · November 2, 2004 4:23AM

<< <i>i would cut through all the Mustard and just contact Anthony. he's easy enough to get ahold of, send him the coin for an evaluation and if he concludes it's a genuine proof you don't need to fool around with the Presidential review or anything else. Game-Set-Match. after that, though, things will get interesting!!!!!! >>

Ah, if only it were that easy! If the aim is to get the coin in a PCGS holder as a Proof, the opinion of Anthony Swiatek (or any other one individual) is probably not going to accomplish that. Experts often disagree about the attributions of such coins, PCGS has already seen and certified some of these and they will likely reach their own conclusions without outside help.

keets · November 2, 2004 4:50AM

hey Mark

good point. i guess Dennis is trying to get it holdered and i'm just thinking about how to get the best verification. i aw one of these offered at the PAN Show in 2003 and talked to a few dealers about it. in the ned i passed cause the opinions were so divided. i think we should rant on the mint for the way they did things back then, making it tough on us collectors today!!!! i'll bet when they made those proofs and gave them to whoever they gave them to, that they assumed they were gonna be in someones estate for life as an heirloom. that's the price that's paid when a dignitary --sp-- who knows nothing about coins gets something special.

i'm fast forwarding to 2110..............i don't like what i see!!!!!!!!!!!

al h.

Got Grades: Bitter/Sweet

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