Heritage's historical prices never factor in anything but the date, mintmark, and numeric grade (I think that's it?). Leads to some interesting comparisons like this one.
Standard advice for any buying situation: know what you're getting into.
"Are they using historical prices that apply to Die 1 and selling a Die 3? (I don't know Lincolns well). If they are it's fraudulent."
Bingo. They even quote the "Grey Sheet Bid" for it as well as show past sales as comparisons (of course for all Die 1's). The coin in question is BARELY a $25 coin. I believe they did it by accident but STILL, IMO, ABSOLUTE negligence (although PROBABLY not outright fraud)
That is disgusting. Coins are the only collectable area where the auction houses would even try this stuff. Sooner or later they'll end up in jail and/or be fined like Christie's was in Great Britian, and for something else, Sotheby's here in U.S. Now that Heritage is expanding, they better not try this stuff in artworks etc. or they'll be nailed very quickly. What's with all the stupid jokes from members criticising "Coin Police" and P.N.G. when this crud goes on? I'll stick to Morgans I think.
Well it wasn't that long ago that Heriitage fessed up to a misleading listing on another coin that became the subject of some speculation on this board as to its authenticity. While promising to more fully disclose - apparently nothing was actually done and the auction went on without a corrected description. Perhaps someone here recalls the specifics better and can post a link.
Everyone is talking like it is an intentional error. I think it is a simple error, and if someone points it out I am sure they will correct it. I'm not even a Lincoln guy, and I can see right away that isn't the major 72 DD.
"...and if someone points it out I am sure they will correct it..."
OK Eric, YOU are officially in charge of it. See how far YOU get getting them to pull it. After all, it's just a simple phone call (800-US-Coins or 214-528-3500) and then a simple click of the mouse. Let us know how it turns out. You'll be lucky if they don't hang up on you and accuse YOU of harassing them.
I've called them before and they have corrected listing mistakes with Morgans. I'm not a Lincoln collector, so if you are and know the various die pairs, why don't you call them?
About a month ago I pointed out that they had the wrong photo, wrong coin pictured for the caption and description. A few days later I checked and wasn't corrected even though I did get a response that it would be looked at.
When a mistake like this is made and corrected with 13 hrs. left I am sure bid retractions/returns would be allowed. The only person hurt would be the winning bidder if he does not notice the changes.
Also the prices realized for this and the higher and lower grades have also been removed. It would have been better if the old values were replaced with the appropriate ones.
EDIT TO ADD: After re-reading this thread I felt I should point out they were very courteous and thanked me.
A while age HNAI had an unc. 1893 Barber dime in one of their auctions. 61 or 62. The insert said Breen: 3479. You had to know that was the 1893/2 variety as HNAI never mentioned it in their description.
As soon as I read this thread early this morning, I emaile Leo Frese with Heritage at precisely 7:27 AM. Hey Tex, thanks for catching this. You have done someone a great service.
Leo, I think you should know that this ANACS 1972 DDO is a hot topic on the PCGS US Coin Forum right now. In alluding to Greysheet, Heritage hopefully unknowingly, is leading bidders into believing this is the rare 72 DDO when it isn't. Whoever wins this coin will be greatly disappointed. Hopefully it isn't too late to right an obvious wrong as we both know that the coin pictured is not at all rare or commanding of such premiums. WC Segura ******************************************************************************************************** No, It's still up there. I just left message for Bob Marino. Let's see what happens! They know we are all watching this.
Great job Joe BUT if they don't cancel the listing ENTIRELY someone is STILL gonna get it w/out vaseline. Why not just cancel it and NOT let the winning bidder have to deal with a headache?
Since they OBVIOUSLY know who is bidding on it they can simply e-mail those people and let them know it's being relisted next week or whenever?
We did notice this thread when it was first posted. At that time, we changed the description (a phone call to one of the catalogers expedited the process), but the wheels were already turning by then.
We also called each of the bidders on the telephone to advise them of the revised description and of the coin's true value. We also asked if any would like to revise their bids based upon this information. None of the bidders changed his or her bids.
At this point, if the successful bidder changes his or her mind, I am sure we would take a return without a restocking fee.
We certainly appreciate bringing this description error to our attention. If you see any others, please do not hesitate to email me at CharlieM@HeritageCoins.com or call me at (800) 872-6467 X 396.
Sincerely,
Charles Mead Auction Coordinator Heritage Numismatic Auctions, Inc. 3500 Maple Ave., 17th Floor Dallas, TX 75219 1-800-872-6467 Ext. 396 (24 hour voice mail) 1-214-252-4396 direct line Fax: 1-214-443-8425 Email: CharlieM@HeritageCoins.com
Heritage has advised each bidder as to market value and the correct description, so now they sort of have to honor their offer to sell. They shouldn't interfer with what an informed buyer and seller are willing to pay or sell for, SO LONG as everyone has the facts correct.
<< <i>We also called each of the bidders on the telephone to advise them of the revised description and of the coin's true value. We also asked if any would like to revise their bids based upon this information. None of the bidders changed his or her bids. >>
Ok, The bidders are notified of the mistake, told of the obviously lower value, and they still insist on paying $391 for it !!????
Why can't i find bidders like these for my auctions ! ???
"We also called each of the bidders on the telephone to advise them of the revised description and of the coin's true value. We also asked if any would like to revise their bids based upon this information. None of the bidders changed his or her bids."
That's gotta be pure BS. Did you also tell them they were bidding around $400 for a $25 coin! Give me a brake!
Shouldn't your policy be to cancel an auction that has received bids under circumstances where the coin was GROSSLY misrepresented in the first place?
"...Heritage has advised each bidder as to market value and the correct description..."
BTW, what was the "TRUE VALUE" you told them that it was? Did you cite some of these examples: $27$24$33$39 What a joke
In fact, this was not the first attempt at this you guys tried LINK
Instead of removing the misleading links to previous Die 1 sales why didn't you insert links to YOUR Die 3 past sales? $42$19 (62RB) Oh that's right, then they may not have been happy paying $400!
My best experience with Heritage - I once bid on (and won) a 1956 Type 1 PF68 Ultra Franklin (at least that's what the description said). The coin was slabbed when NGC did not call out T1/T2 on the label.
I pulled the trigger, and of course, received a Type 2 coin. I called and inquired about the discrepancy, and not only did I receive a full refund, including shipping, they even covered my return s/h/i.
Why are you waiting? He posted his phone number, fax number and email address. Ask him directly, don't wait for him to stumble back to this thread again.
Comments
Standard advice for any buying situation: know what you're getting into.
jonathan
Bingo. They even quote the "Grey Sheet Bid" for it as well as show past sales as comparisons (of course for all Die 1's). The coin in question is BARELY a $25 coin. I believe they did it by accident but STILL, IMO, ABSOLUTE negligence (although PROBABLY not outright fraud)
Jerry
OK Eric, YOU are officially in charge of it. See how far YOU get getting them to pull it. After all, it's just a simple phone call (800-US-Coins or 214-528-3500) and then a simple click of the mouse. Let us know how it turns out.
About a month ago I pointed out that they had the wrong photo, wrong coin pictured for the caption and description. A few days later I checked and wasn't corrected even though I did get a response that it would be looked at.
is a mistake and they will correct it now.
Good job guys!
So, is joeyuk the newest member of the Coin Doctor Posse?
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
-YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
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Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
<< <i>fixed. >>
Is it? Yes, they've taken away the $400 claim on the Greysheet. But those old bids, presumably entered in good faith on that basis, are still there.
They really need to pull the item from this auction and try again at their next auction with the accurate description.
left I am sure bid retractions/returns would be allowed. The
only person hurt would be the winning bidder if he does not
notice the changes.
Also the prices realized for this and the higher and lower grades
have also been removed. It would have been better if the old
values were replaced with the appropriate ones.
EDIT TO ADD: After re-reading this thread I felt I should point
out they were very courteous and thanked me.
The insert said Breen: 3479. You had to know that was the 1893/2 variety as HNAI
never mentioned it in their description.
Sounds like they are having growing pains to me.
Steve
Leo,
I think you should know that this ANACS 1972 DDO is a hot topic on the PCGS US Coin Forum right now. In alluding to Greysheet, Heritage hopefully unknowingly, is leading bidders into believing this is the rare 72 DDO when it isn't. Whoever wins this coin will be greatly disappointed. Hopefully it isn't too late to right an obvious wrong as we both know that the coin pictured is not at all rare or commanding of such premiums.
WC Segura
********************************************************************************************************
No, It's still up there. I just left message for Bob Marino. Let's see what happens! They know we are all watching this.
Since they OBVIOUSLY know who is bidding on it they can simply e-mail those people and let them know it's being relisted next week or whenever?
We did notice this thread when it was first posted. At that time, we changed the description (a phone call to one of the catalogers expedited the process), but the wheels were already turning by then.
We also called each of the bidders on the telephone to advise them of the revised description and of the coin's true value. We also asked if any would like to revise their bids based upon this information. None of the bidders changed his or her bids.
At this point, if the successful bidder changes his or her mind, I am sure we would take a return without a restocking fee.
We certainly appreciate bringing this description error to our attention. If you see any others, please do not hesitate to email me at CharlieM@HeritageCoins.com or call me at (800) 872-6467 X 396.
Sincerely,
Charles Mead
Auction Coordinator
Heritage Numismatic Auctions, Inc.
3500 Maple Ave., 17th Floor
Dallas, TX 75219
1-800-872-6467 Ext. 396 (24 hour voice mail)
1-214-252-4396 direct line
Fax: 1-214-443-8425
Email: CharlieM@HeritageCoins.com
Order your Coin price guide, the Red Book here:
https://www.heritagecoins.com/sales/redbook.asp?
See us on the web at:
www.HeritageGalleries.com
www.HeritageCoins.com
www.CurrencyAuction.com
www.HeritageComics.com
Jerry
What's so complicated about this? Heritage should just cancel the auction. End of story.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
<< <i>We also called each of the bidders on the telephone to advise them of the revised description and of the coin's true value. We also asked if any would like to revise their bids based upon this information. None of the bidders changed his or her bids. >>
Ok, The bidders are notified of the mistake, told of the obviously lower value, and they still insist on paying $391 for it !!????
Why can't i find bidders like these for my auctions ! ???
That's gotta be pure BS.
Shouldn't your policy be to cancel an auction that has received bids under circumstances where the coin was GROSSLY misrepresented in the first place?
"...Heritage has advised each bidder as to market value and the correct description..."
BTW, what was the "TRUE VALUE" you told them that it was? Did you cite some of these examples: $27 $24 $33 $39
In fact, this was not the first attempt at this you guys tried LINK
Instead of removing the misleading links to previous Die 1 sales why didn't you insert links to YOUR Die 3 past sales? $42 $19 (62RB) Oh that's right, then they may not have been happy paying $400!
I pulled the trigger, and of course, received a Type 2 coin. I called and inquired about the discrepancy, and not only did I receive a full refund, including shipping, they even covered my return s/h/i.
Mark
Type 1 ultra cam in 68 ?
That would be one rare puppy !