Better be careful, there are a couple of people on these boards who will accuse you of being the Antichrist unless you personally injected the steroids into Bonds and he gave you a certificate of authenticity afterwards (PSA/DNA authenticated, naturally).
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
<< <i>Better be careful, there are a couple of people on these boards who will accuse you of being the Antichrist unless you personally injected the steroids into Bonds and he gave you a certificate of authenticity afterwards (PSA/DNA authenticated, naturally). >>
Oh you mean like that guy GoingDownOnFrazier? He thinks OJ was innocent too.
Ok... so let's say that Bonds is eventually found of having used steroids at one time or another... what happens to him and his career? Does an asterisk get tacked onto the 73 home run season? And what about the 700+ career homers... how many of those were directly generated from the juice? Does Bonds still waltz into the HOF? Is he banned from baseball permanently? I could see how using steroids could easily be construed with game tampering, essentially giving one team an unequal advantage over the other. I'd say such an offense is far worse than anything Pete Rose ever did.
Honestly, I bet MLB already knows Bonds has used steroids and it would be a gigantic scandal on their hands if it was publically admitted by them. Baseball cannot afford any such scandal, as fan following is the highest it's been since the pre-strike days.
So, ultimately, the baseball world is faced with an ethical dilemma. Even if he's guilty of doing it, I don't think a day will come prior to irrevokable admittance into the Hall Of Fame, if ever, where the public will hear any sort of confession of guilt from Bonds or MLB or anyone else making huge money from the game of baseball.
How can you say Bonds took roids? come on get real he was like 185 pounds his rookie year like 210 his 10th season. then he looked like lee haney the past 5 years. big deal if you lift weights and get that protein in you. you can gain 40-50 pounds of muscle in 2 months no problem
winpitcher interesting comment! i said that for years pete rose got f@cked and jordan walked scott free! some say he dad was murdered over gambling debt. but i dont think thats true
if pete's situation happened in say 78 instead of 88 i would imagine mlb would have been a lil more easy on him too. if u put fannies in the seats and are one of the guys at the top of your game.......
Odd... I have a 140 IQ and although I'm not contending that Barry is necessarily innocent, I don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to pin him on steroid use. I mean, really, what evidence really exists against Barry? A few publicity-hungry suspended track athletes and various pond scum with a big name to drop, a weight/muscle-gain pattern that isn't that remarkable, and a one-season blip in HR production which is the basic equivalent to what Roger Maris accomplished. If Barry's immediately guilty of anything, it's associating with the wrong people.
Kobe Who? At least Dwyane pays proper respect to Da Big Aristotle
I have seen nothing in North Bay area papers concerning this.............(oh I forgot, they must be trying to hide this.......... shhhhh)
OK all you SF Bay area baseball fans. News like this should have made front page news in ALL SF area newspapers. Like Associated Press articles. Anybody in the South Bay, East Bay, or SF see an article like this in their papers ???????
<< <i>In this story, pay special attention to the use of the phrase... COMPLETELY FABRICATED >>
I agree. From now on, whenever the accused says the charges against him are completely fabricated we should just believe him and drop the whole thing. >>
Your logic is flawed.
Bonds (and other athletes) is who they Fabricated this evidence against. But it is the accused (Balco pres) that is standing up and saying it is not true. If he is going down, what does he care if they go too?
It would make a hell of a lot more sense if it were true for the president of Balco to flip on him and YELL as loud as he could that he gave steriods to them all (whether true or not) in hopes of brokering some kind of a deal.
<< <i> I'm not contending that Barry is necessarily innocent, I don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to pin him on steroid use. I mean, really, what evidence really exists against Barry? >>
EXACTLY
there was more evidence that proved that OJ killed his wife... but he was found not guilty. but at least there Was some evidence to initially accuse him with a real crime,
Bonds is guilty of working hard, and playing well. Just like McGwire, Sosa, Ichiro, R. Johnson, Shilling, Clemens, Sheffield, A-Rod, and others.
And any time there is success, people have to believe it is cheating.
No one offered any opinions as to what happens to him if it is proven for certain that he has been using 'roids, as I mentioned in an earlier post. What will happen to Bonds' records, stats, HOF eligibility, etc.? Could baseball afford such a scandal? I would guess his cards would plummet as quickly as Milli Vanilli's career.
<< <i> Bonds (and other athletes) is who they Fabricated this evidence against. But it is the accused (Balco pres) that is standing up and saying it is not true. If he is going down, what does he care if they go too?
It would make a hell of a lot more sense if it were true for the president of Balco to flip on him and YELL as loud as he could that he gave steriods to them all (whether true or not) in hopes of brokering some kind of a deal.
It is no help at all to say they didnt.
so you are sadly off the mark on this one >>
Well, I agree that one of us is sadly off the mark - I think maybe you didn't read the article.
There is only one accused in this case - BALCO; if evidence was fabricated it was fabricated against BALCO. Your statement that "Bonds ... is who they fabricated this evidence against" is simply incorrect. Even if the trail leads, as it looks like it already has, to evidence that Barry Bonds received steroids from them, the Federal agency prosecuting THIS case will have absolutely nothing to do with any hypothetical future action taken against Bonds. TAKING steroids is not a federal crime - DISTRIBUTING steroids is.
Logically, then, if the evidence IS NOT fabricated then it makes perfect sense for BALCO to try to claim it is - that is what guilty people usually do, at least at first. If it IS fabricated then, of course, it still makes sense for the same man to say the same things. It is therefore of absolutely no significance, logically speaking, that the accused is saying what he is saying - he would say the exact same thing whether he was innocent or guilty.
Also, note that the BALCO executive making the self-serving "completely fabricated" statements is not the same person quoted in the original article as saying that he was aware of steroids being distributed to Bonds. If THAT executive goes on record as saying that the evidence is "fabricated" (after already providing sworn testimony to the contrary) then we have a different story.
And your last statement, "It is no help at all to say they didnt", has me befuddled. Are you suggesting that it is of no help for an accused who is guilty to claim that he is not??? I know OJ, among many others, would disagree.
<edited for spelling>
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
I wouldn't swear to this but you probably got about as much a chance at getting to the bottom of this topic as I do of getting OJ to confess, Clinton to admit wrongdoing with Whitewater, finding the Loch Ness monster, Jimmy Hoffa or figuring out what the hell that is on top of Sam Donaldson's head!
I find it very interesting that considering all that you all seem to think is "common knowledge" about Bonds supposedly doing steroids, that MLB coaches and managers would voluntarily get together to award Bonds this Silver Slugger or any other award...
Silver Slugger selections are based on a combination of offensive statistics, as well as general impressions of a player's overall offensive value. Major League Baseball coaches and managers voted for a player at each position in the National and American League. Managers and coaches were not allowed to vote for a player on their own team.
<< <i>I have seen nothing in North Bay area papers concerning this.............(oh I forgot, they must be trying to hide this.......... shhhhh) OK all you SF Bay area baseball fans. News like this should have made front page news in ALL SF area newspapers. Like Associated Press articles. Anybody in the South Bay, East Bay, or SF see an article like this in their papers ??????? >>
Well???? Just what I thought, nothing. Nothing here in the local papers, etc. At least I'm starting to figure out who watches 'reality' TV.
Not counting the AP articles that were printed in the area papers (which may outnumber the locally originated ones), Google shows about a dozen articles in just the last few days from the San Francisco Chronicle, San Jose Mercury News, Contra Costa Times and Sacramento Bee. You have to be a subscriber to read most of them or I would post links - just go to google.com/news and type in "bonds" and "steroids" in the search box. As one would expect, there are thousands of articles and more of them originate from the Bay Area media than any other single source.
I don't know what position these articles take, but the topic is certainly being writtten about.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Now we're getting somewhere. I'll check them out (or at least try to) to see if they coincide with the original topic. Sounds like you already tried but I'll give it a shot also.
Too many people jump on the Bonds-is-bad bandwagon before all is known. I just get sick and tired of all the 'experts' out here.........if so much is known maybe these folks should quit their day jobs and make some serious coin as an elite investigator. BOTR
Everyone else, I never did hear any explanation as to how all the MLB coaches and managers would voluntarily get together to award Bonds this Silver Slugger or any other award...
Especially since you experts here all seem to have decided difinitively that Bonds is guilty...
I suppose you all know so much more about the game, training and Bonds than ALL of them!
<< <i>Especially since you experts here all seem to have decided difinitively that Bonds is guilty... >>
BKAH I think his reputation is probably driving the rush to judgement. I have to say...this guy says he worked out every winter real hard and owes his size to that and good nutrition...innocent until proven otherwise. I will say tho...he is quilty of being difficult and unfriendly over the years. your friend Mike
<< <i>I will say tho...he is quilty of being difficult and unfriendly over the years. your friend Mike >>
That maybe true Mike, but honestly, how many other players, ESPECIALLY star players, have ever been accused of "being difficult and unfriendly"? Williams? Mays? Aaron? and about a million more?
I think some guys are better at the social aspect than others And I think Bonds is better than he used to be, because as you and I know, we all mellow with age!
<< <i>Oh you mean like that guy GoingDownOnFrazier? He thinks OJ was innocent too.
>>
RonD, How lond did it take you to think that one up? You are a clown. Disrespectful and absolutely clueless. You offer nothing. No expertise, no insight, no proof, not even a witty anecdote regarding the subject matter. You mutter a random insult and meagerly retreat behind your keyboard. I've had no dealings with you. We've had no words or history. Yet, you choose now to utter such a tantilizing quip as this in my direction. I am one of the few guys here who actually played professional baseball and used anabolic androgens. This doesn't make me better than you or even more qualified to offer an opinion, but I do understand the situation better than you do.
Here's the deal Ronald; real men play the game that you watch from the comfort of the sofa that seems to be growing from your a$$. Men that are innocent until proven guilty. How would you like someone at your work reading your inference of "going down on me"--(still gives me a chuckle...it's just so witty!)-- and stating that you were gay and then posting such things in a public forum? Making sense to the likes of you would be impossible. You're a mindless turd. I will fight every impulse I have of posting on this matter again.
RonD
Posts: 93 ✭
Comments
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
<< <i>Better be careful, there are a couple of people on these boards who will accuse you of being the Antichrist unless you personally injected the steroids into Bonds and he gave you a certificate of authenticity afterwards (PSA/DNA authenticated, naturally). >>
Oh you mean like that guy GoingDownOnFrazier? He thinks OJ was innocent too.
Honestly, I bet MLB already knows Bonds has used steroids and it would be a gigantic scandal on their hands if it was publically admitted by them. Baseball cannot afford any such scandal, as fan following is the highest it's been since the pre-strike days.
So, ultimately, the baseball world is faced with an ethical dilemma. Even if he's guilty of doing it, I don't think a day will come prior to irrevokable admittance into the Hall Of Fame, if ever, where the public will hear any sort of confession of guilt from Bonds or MLB or anyone else making huge money from the game of baseball.
The average IQ of the remaining group decreases as well.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>The number of people who STILL believe Bonds is innocent is dwindling.
The average IQ of the remaining group decreases as well. >>
It is a text book Witch hunt.
In this story, pay special attention to
the use of the phrase...
COMPLETELY FABRICATED
Yes, I collect shiny modern crap
All your Shaq are belong to me
<< <i>In this story, pay special attention to
the use of the phrase... COMPLETELY FABRICATED >>
I agree. From now on, whenever the accused says the charges against him are completely fabricated we should just believe him and drop the whole thing.
OK all you SF Bay area baseball fans. News like this should have made front page news in ALL SF area newspapers. Like Associated Press articles. Anybody in the South Bay, East Bay, or SF see an article like this in their papers ???????
BTW.................US National???.............(AFP)?????
Is this the PSA or PRO grading standard of the newspaper world? Looks like PRO to me...........
BOTR
<< <i>
<< <i>In this story, pay special attention to
the use of the phrase... COMPLETELY FABRICATED >>
I agree. From now on, whenever the accused says the charges against him are completely fabricated we should just believe him and drop the whole thing. >>
Your logic is flawed.
Bonds (and other athletes) is who they Fabricated this
evidence against.
But it is the accused (Balco pres) that is standing
up and saying it is not true.
If he is going down, what does he care if they go too?
It would make a hell of a lot more sense if it were true
for the president of Balco to flip on him and YELL as loud
as he could that he gave steriods to them all (whether true or not)
in hopes of brokering some kind of a deal.
It is no help at all to say they didnt.
so you are sadly off the mark on this one
<< <i> I'm not contending that Barry is necessarily innocent, I don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to pin him on steroid use. I mean, really, what evidence really exists against Barry? >>
EXACTLY
there was more evidence that proved
that OJ killed his wife... but he was found not guilty.
but at least there Was some evidence to initially
accuse him with a real crime,
Bonds is guilty of working hard, and playing well.
Just like McGwire, Sosa, Ichiro, R. Johnson, Shilling, Clemens, Sheffield, A-Rod, and others.
And any time there is success, people have to believe it is cheating.
<< <i>
Bonds (and other athletes) is who they Fabricated this
evidence against.
But it is the accused (Balco pres) that is standing
up and saying it is not true.
If he is going down, what does he care if they go too?
It would make a hell of a lot more sense if it were true
for the president of Balco to flip on him and YELL as loud
as he could that he gave steriods to them all (whether true or not)
in hopes of brokering some kind of a deal.
It is no help at all to say they didnt.
so you are sadly off the mark on this one >>
Well, I agree that one of us is sadly off the mark - I think maybe you didn't read the article.
There is only one accused in this case - BALCO; if evidence was fabricated it was fabricated against BALCO. Your statement that "Bonds ... is who they fabricated this evidence against" is simply incorrect. Even if the trail leads, as it looks like it already has, to evidence that Barry Bonds received steroids from them, the Federal agency prosecuting THIS case will have absolutely nothing to do with any hypothetical future action taken against Bonds. TAKING steroids is not a federal crime - DISTRIBUTING steroids is.
Logically, then, if the evidence IS NOT fabricated then it makes perfect sense for BALCO to try to claim it is - that is what guilty people usually do, at least at first. If it IS fabricated then, of course, it still makes sense for the same man to say the same things. It is therefore of absolutely no significance, logically speaking, that the accused is saying what he is saying - he would say the exact same thing whether he was innocent or guilty.
Also, note that the BALCO executive making the self-serving "completely fabricated" statements is not the same person quoted in the original article as saying that he was aware of steroids being distributed to Bonds. If THAT executive goes on record as saying that the evidence is "fabricated" (after already providing sworn testimony to the contrary) then we have a different story.
And your last statement, "It is no help at all to say they didnt", has me befuddled. Are you suggesting that it is of no help for an accused who is guilty to claim that he is not??? I know OJ, among many others, would disagree.
<edited for spelling>
considering all that you all seem to
think is "common knowledge" about
Bonds supposedly doing steroids,
that MLB coaches and managers would
voluntarily get together to award Bonds
this Silver Slugger or any other award...
Silver Slugger selections are based on a combination
of offensive statistics, as well as general impressions
of a player's overall offensive value. Major League Baseball
coaches and managers voted for a player at each position
in the National and American League. Managers and coaches
were not allowed to vote for a player on their own team.
Here is the whole story for those
who are interested in what the Pros
think about Bonds...
Bonds Wins 12th Silver Slugger Award
<< <i>I have seen nothing in North Bay area papers concerning this.............(oh I forgot, they must be trying to hide this.......... shhhhh)
OK all you SF Bay area baseball fans. News like this should have made front page news in ALL SF area newspapers. Like Associated Press articles. Anybody in the South Bay, East Bay, or SF see an article like this in their papers ??????? >>
Well???? Just what I thought, nothing.
Nothing here in the local papers, etc.
At least I'm starting to figure out who watches 'reality' TV.
BOTR
I don't know what position these articles take, but the topic is certainly being writtten about.
Now we're getting somewhere. I'll check them out (or at least try to) to see if they coincide with the original topic. Sounds like you already tried but I'll give it a shot also.
Too many people jump on the Bonds-is-bad bandwagon before all is known. I just get sick and tired of all the 'experts' out here.........if so much is known maybe these folks should quit their day jobs and make some serious coin as an elite investigator.
BOTR
how you been!
good I hope!!
Everyone else,
I never did hear any explanation as to
how all the MLB coaches and managers would
voluntarily get together to award Bonds
this Silver Slugger or any other award...
Especially since you experts here all
seem to have decided difinitively that Bonds
is guilty...
I suppose you all know so much more about
the game, training and Bonds than
ALL of them!
<< <i>Especially since you experts here all
seem to have decided difinitively that Bonds
is guilty... >>
BKAH
I think his reputation is probably driving the rush to judgement. I have to say...this guy says he worked out every winter real hard and owes his size to that and good nutrition...innocent until proven otherwise.
I will say tho...he is quilty of being difficult and unfriendly over the years.
your friend
Mike
<< <i>I will say tho...he is quilty of being difficult and unfriendly over the years.
your friend
Mike >>
That maybe true Mike,
but honestly, how many other players,
ESPECIALLY star players, have ever been
accused of "being difficult and unfriendly"?
Williams?
Mays?
Aaron?
and about a million more?
I think some guys are better at the social aspect than others
And I think Bonds is better than he used to be,
because as you and I know, we all mellow with age!
(hello by the way...)
<< <i>Oh you mean like that guy GoingDownOnFrazier? He thinks OJ was innocent too.
>>
RonD,
How lond did it take you to think that one up? You are a clown. Disrespectful and absolutely clueless. You offer nothing. No expertise, no insight, no proof, not even a witty anecdote regarding the subject matter. You mutter a random insult and meagerly retreat behind your keyboard. I've had no dealings with you. We've had no words or history. Yet, you choose now to utter such a tantilizing quip as this in my direction. I am one of the few guys here who actually played professional baseball and used anabolic androgens. This doesn't make me better than you or even more qualified to offer an opinion, but I do understand the situation better than you do.
Here's the deal Ronald; real men play the game that you watch from the comfort of the sofa that seems to be growing from your a$$. Men that are innocent until proven guilty. How would you like someone at your work reading your inference of "going down on me"--(still gives me a chuckle...it's just so witty!)-- and stating that you were gay and then posting such things in a public forum? Making sense to the likes of you would be impossible. You're a mindless turd.
I will fight every impulse I have of posting on this matter again.
dgf