Fake coins are bad for the hobby....PERIOD !

topstuf

I used to deal in antique toys. Then a couple guys began remaking the entire Lionel train lineup. Then they moved to the battery-op robots and Jap tin toys. And on these, the ONLY difference was what was printed on the .....battery cover. Battery covers from genuine toys were a dime a dozen.

I used to run 4 page ads in Antique Toy World. Prices began to slip and soon dealers were doing shows with NOTHING BUT the fake toys. In my ads I condemned fakes and got favorable response for doing so.

BUT.....when I tried to get a few other dealers interested in exploring if we could become added to the Hobby Protection Act, ...............no...........interest............whatever. Their answers were that "everyone knows they're fakes." Yeah....sure.....care to guess the state of the antique toy market today? Several publications that I sent warning letters to are now finding I was right and the few months they got paid well for carrying ads for these fakes must have been great months because many of these publications no longer are around.

I no longer deal in old toys. I have a few that I like that are about 10-30% of what they were and no one is particularly interested any more.

The FAKES FILL A COLLECTOR'S........desire. Not all can afford or even care whether items are genuine. If they have something to show to equally ignorant people, they get the same satisfaction as if they had the real thing.

This even ....includes....the ones marked "COPY" It may seem innocent enough, but many will use those for the more expensive coins they need. And that progresses downward inevitably. As any item becomes scarcer, it will be covered by a fake. The ones marked are not as .....grave....a danger as the unmarked ones, but they still remove SOME buyers from the market.

(Personally, I'd like to feed em fake food for a few months and the problem would be over)

I'M TELLIN YA......... If a concerted effort is not made to bring ebay under the scrutiny of the HPA violations, coins will take it in the tush.

I am convinced this will happen.

Anyone listening?

Russ

<< <i>Anyone listening? >>



No, just reading.

Russ, NCNE

LindeDad

Hope so!!!

Aethelred

I agree, fakes (marked "COPY" or otherwise) have no place in this hobby.

MrEureka

Personally, I don't worry too much about most of the fakes we see these days. HOWEVER, counterfeiters are going to get better and better. At some point, it will be spooky. Best to fight the counterfeiters today so that we are more prepared to fight the more important battles later on.

majorbigtime

<< <i>Personally, I don't worry too much about most of the fakes we see these days. HOWEVER, counterfeiters are going to get better and better. At some point, it will be spooky. Best to fight the counterfeiters today so that we are more prepared to fight the more important battles later on. >>



I agree that this is a major concern. There are already some very deceeptive fakes, and technology may serve to make detection more challenging.

tjkillian

I have always been nervous of fakes. I believe some day if a coin does not have provenace in an old catalog, it might be deemed a fake. Looking at the Bay counterfeits, they were good. As technology gets better, more fakes will be coming on to the market. Will PCGS/NGC/ANACS be able to keep up? If the original designers were able to do it, why not someone today? It is a real scary thought and I did not know about the antique toys.

Tom

mgoodm3

Yes.

ksteelheader

People making fakes are getting better every day due to much improved technology!

Why, soon you'll be able to train a ferret to be a lawyer....

Hedger

All junk! Agreed. Not good for the hobby.

nickel

if an item is marked copy , and someone wishes to purchase it , they can do so . there are two businesses(that i am aware of ) that produce copies of rare date coins . these are not 'fakes' or 'counterfeits' . they are replicas . if its from a foreign country or other dubious source , and buyers purchase them , what can ebay or other online auction sites do ? is it their responsibility to weed out the bad stuff ? is it up to the buyer ? there are probably hundreds of copies and knockoffs of other 'stuff' being listed on ebay or whereever . maybe the bay and others do prescreening of everything listed ? who would be qualified to do so ?

Conder101

What about contemporary counterfeits? How do you feel about them?

291fifth

zzzz

I agree .. And that is a good argument on why someone should never buy raw coins ...

With the proliferation of "NEW" so called dealers that have no clue as seen on these very boards asking for help in grades and what a coin is worth. The "hobby" is just setting itself up for little old ladies coming in with their late husbands coins, which some are fakes, and the "dealer" not knowing the differeance.

Knowledge ... That's the key ... IMHO a "NEW" dealer, as some so called established dealers, should take a couple summers spending both weeks at the ANA taking classes. Also reading books before they decide to hang up their shingle ...

I for one don't feel sorry for a new dealer getting scammed with a fake coin .. It's may be too bad ... but Knowledge .... that is king ...

topstuf

The essence of a collection of anything is that some of the items are truly rare. These ...rare... items become sought after. A collector knows that he will never be able to own the rarest of the items in his field ....and ACCEPTS that. He then pursues a microcosm of the rarity and concentrates on the best that he CAN afford. In such a manner ....another.....rarity is born.

This is the way it has always been.

And what has always existed is a faker of collectibles.

What has NOT (until recently) existed is businesses SPECIALIZING in copying rare items. I can only tell you what it did to antique toys. I contend it will also happen in coins.

There is a certain collector who doesn't mind his example being marked "COPY." It's a step ahead of NO marking, but it's a BAD step ahead.

Since this collector need only pay a little bit for his COPY, he develops no interest, does no research, goes to no shows, and............gets BORED.

Then, out goes everything. Copies, real, everything. Interest wanes even among the rubes he has shown his complete type set (beautifully mounted in Lucite on his wall) to and even they lose any interest (if they had any in the first place knowing he was just ORDERING each "coin.")

ONE COMPANY faking toys advertised like crazy and destroyed that market. The toy market is a FRACTION of the coin market, but there is no reason to think that the same thing will happen here. It will never be completed as the coin market is so big, but copies are NO GOOD.

IMO

dorkkarl

i happen to own quite a few fake coins, & really enjoy owning them. i consider them a very legit part of the hobby.

thankfully, most fakes won't slab, so i don't even have to crack 'em out.

K S

bigtonydallas

Coins are more difficult to copy and the collector base is different than toys. Most collectors dont like cleaned coins let alone a fake one. I dont think that these COPY coins will hurt the rare coin market.

earlwbollinger

Well, I am not sure what to really think.
But fake and counterfeit coins have been around since the first coin was minted.
I think that fakes didn't really start to take off until the trade dollars and such hit the Orient
in the 1800's. Then everyone wanted to fake them for added profit.
Back in the old days, mass production and distribution of the fakes was a big problem, so most
people didn't have to worry all that much about it.
Now today, distribution is much improved and fakes just tend to flood the market.
But I don't see a lot of people lining up to buy them though.
But most coin collectors just don't like fakes, so they'll pass, if they are knowledgeable enough
to tell the difference.
Besides antique toys, you have trading cards too, there are a lot of fakes of the rare ones there too.

morgannut2

There's an interesting article in this weeks Coin World (Nov. 1st, ) on Judge's order to halt "Freedom Tower silver dollar" sales. More importantly it looks like the deep pockets of Tiffany Jewelry are feed up with eBay Knock-offs and they're trying to use copyright protection to get around eBay's use of the protection afforded to computer commerce. See page 62. in CW. Tiffany alleges "eBay tacitly facilitates" the trade in counterfeit.. items. Sound familar?