Player master set question

EagleEyeKid · October 29, 2004 12:28PM

I'm a Martin Brodeur collector and I want to put together a master set. To me, this is every Martin Brodeur card produced (inserts, regular, jerseys, autos, food, oddities, etc). I'm new to the registry, but I noticed one thing and please correct me if I'm wrong. A master set is every card PSA has graded , and not what's produced by the card companies? I was looking at Bobby Orr's master set and there are 67 required cards for the complete set. However, there are still Orr cards being pumped out in today's modern sets as inserts, etc. So if someone started grading those modern cards, will that change the master set required cards?

maxXposure · October 29, 2004 1:08PM

If you have a card that hasnt been graded yet, but IS "gradeable", you can request that it be added to the master set composition..

mudflap02 · October 29, 2004 2:15PM

I just ate dog food.

Master set = cards while player played plus one - (tribute cards).

Everything else is trash. I cllect some modern ryans, mainly topps reprints - only stuff that strikes my fancy.

Dog food does not strike my fancy. Bad.

EagleEyeKid · October 29, 2004 2:32PM

Thanks!

dalew · October 29, 2004 6:07PM

I'm doing a Mel Harder Master Set (Baseball) and he played from 1928 to 1947 and then coached from 1948 to 1968.

At some point, I hope that PSA will allow all cards to go into the master set, especially with Harder because he has some nice vintage cards, including being on Indians Team Cards from the 50's and 60's and a nice 1960 Coaches Card.

There are also some nice insert cards.

Dale

jrdolan · October 29, 2004 7:04PM

All the card companies are continuing to print gazillions of cards for retired stars: autos and GU bats, jersey swatches, etc., and just plain old "remember when?" cards to fill out packs. Do we really want Nolan Ryan's master set, for example, to expand by 25-50 cards a year until the sun goes nova and mankind ceases to exist? Wouldn't Ryan's master set require 10,497 cards to complete next year? I'm GLAD they restrict it to the athlete's playing years.

jimtb · October 29, 2004 9:44PM

jrdolan, I'm with you. As a Trammell collector, I know there must be at least 25 cards, sometimes as much as 50, released a year, and he hasn't played in 8 years. His master set of just playing years releases would be pushing 1000; he's most likely had another 500 released since he retired. It needs to be kept to just playing years, plus one, in my opinion.
Jim

Pinchdatail · October 29, 2004 10:27PM

mudflap02,

Just curious about this:

<< <i>Master set = cards while player played plus one - (tribute cards). >>

Can you give me an example of a "tribute card" that has been included in a Master Set? I didn't know the Registry did that. Thanks!

Aknot · October 29, 2004 10:58PM

But then how can it be called a "Master" set when It does not include EVERY card? Maybe a new set called "Complete" set? To me Master is just that. Any and every card (reconized by the NFL/NFLPA or other affiliation) that has been printed and that is gradeable.

jackstraw · October 29, 2004 11:28PM

i have also thought that they(psa) should allow more than one of each card? if you collect marino or whoever why can't you list more than one of his rookies?

jrdolan · October 29, 2004 11:28PM

<< <i>Can you give me an example of a "tribute card" that has been included in a Master Set? I didn't know the Registry did that. Thanks! >>

For Johnny Bench, whose last year was 1983, there are 1984 "tribute" cards from Topps, Fleer and Donruss. Strictly speaking, they are after his playing days, but I can live with "farewell" cards the next season in the master set. Just not every year until the end of time.

Aknot, I sorta see your point. For example, I'd like a registry set for Lou Gehrig's post-career cards (the only way I can afford to collect him). But I don't think the pre-war Gehrig collectors would appreciate seeing some 2004 blast-from-the-past card, or even 1961 Topps #405, added to the Iron Horse master set.

NickM · October 30, 2004 4:04AM

I would also like to see full-career Master sets put together for people who had careers both as players and managers (e.g., Joe Torre, Frank Robinson, Gil Hodges, Yogi Berra, Ted Williams, Red Schoendienst). While there would be disagreement as to whether a card from a set featuring retired players should be part of such a Master set, I think many player collectors would consider the regular issue cards of a manager (e.g., Topps, '82 Donruss) to be part of a complete collection of his cards.

Nick

Aknot · October 30, 2004 8:17AM

<< <i> But I don't think the pre-war Gehrig collectors would appreciate seeing some 2004 blast-from-the-past card, or even 1961 Topps #405, added to the Iron Horse master set. >>

No offense to them (or you) but who cares. You are a collector just like they are. While I appreciate and respect their collection they should do the same for "us".

It could be 3 "sets".

1. Basic Set Rookie year to last year played.
2. Master Set ALL cards from Rookie year to last year played.
3. Complete Set each and every card ever produced and graded.

I mean its not like they (PSA) cant tie their data base into their "machine" labeler and when a label is created it cross checks the data base then adds it if it is not already there. That way it "cuts out" them having to input them by hand and us requesting it. If it is PSA graded it WILL be in one of the "sets" as an option for the registry. I mena we can already pull it up buy the cert number.

NickM · October 30, 2004 2:35PM

Aknot - in the case of a player like Cobb, Ruth, or Gehrig, what would be the relative weights of a nationally distributed card from the player's career (T206 Cobb, 1933 Goudey Ruth or Gehrig) versus a 2001 Upper Deck Hall of Famers card of one of those players). Now how about a game-used card of one of those players - which may have occurred in several colored variations, each numbered to a different amount?

There just aren't that many collectors of what I will call commemorative cards of legendary players.

Nick

Aknot · October 30, 2004 9:45PM

I can honestly say I do not know how the weight system works. BUT they could incorporate a percentage of a whole system depending on the rarity/availiability of the card.

JonB · October 31, 2004 9:17AM

ok, well here is my 2 cents worth...

Look at the cal ripken master set... its almost up to 2000 cards (an i feel sure it is missing one or two).

nolan ryan stopped playing in 93 and his master set is going up quite a few cards next year just to include cards that haven't already been listed.

now look at Ken griffey jr. (i'm not sure why anyone would collect his cards, lol) but I am assuming the reason he doesn't have a basic or master set listed yet is because of the sheer volume. I would guess a ken griffey jr master set (just from his playing years) would top out at around 5,000 (if not more) cards. I can't even begin to imagine what his master set would be like 10 years from now.

I love collecting nolan ryan cards, and when I finish his basic set I may someday work on his master set again, but even at around 1,000-1,100 cards thats starting to push the envelope a bit in terms of size.

I do however believe that there should be a basic set (only main cards from major brands during his play years), and a master set (all cards from his playing years), and a "whatever name you come up with" set that would include every card of that player that PSA will grade from any year. The problem with the last set would be that it would never end. How would you like to have a complete set of 4,928 cards, and then next year have to add another 500 cards to it?

THAT WOULD JUST BE NUTS.

anyways, thats my 2cents worth

Aknot · October 31, 2004 11:41AM

Yeah but how do you NOT include a card (that is authorized via NFL/NFLPA etc.)? While it may seem "nuts" it can be done. It not only puts money in PSA's pocket but it protects the investment of the person putting it together.

Yes there are lot of "Master" sets that are probably unattainable but thats why some of us do it. Its a small hobby in itself. No you dont have to do it but the chase makes it worth the while. Im hoping my son picks up my Marino collection and keeps running with it.

All it is, is a "list". A way to say hey look what I got.

Aknot · October 31, 2004 11:43AM

BTW I have lost my title. Congrats Greg. A change will be coming.

jrdolan · October 31, 2004 12:03PM

My lord, I didn't realize Ripken and Ryan had that many cards in their master sets. I guess anybody whose career extended into the era of a bazillion card manufacturers and a gazillion variations / parallels / inserts will have a master set the size of Nebraska.

Johnny Bench's 138 cards are puny by comparison. Even when every last card, coin, disc, beer coaster and doohickey from 1968-83 is slabbed by PSA and added to the master set, it probably won't go much over 200 -- a number that doesn't make my head hurt.

Aknot · October 31, 2004 12:44PM

But do we collect because they have "X" amount of cards or do we collect because we like the player/team?

sjeanblanc · November 1, 2004 1:55AM

Aknot,

I believe the limitation, is an economic one, while I have Nolan Ryan cards that are beyond what is listable in the Master Player set, I have no wish to pay PSA $5 - $50/ card, to tell me that a 2 cent card is NM/MT, MT, or Gem Mint. These cards are best left in Binders, in my opinion.

I also don't see why you couldn't pursue a All-Time PSA graded Dan Marino set, I think it would be best left unweighted due to its size, it just wouldn't be the Master Player set.

Scott J.

Aknot · November 1, 2004 7:53AM

<< <i>Aknot,

I believe the limitation, is an economic one, while I have Nolan Ryan cards that are beyond what is listable in the Master Player set, I have no wish to pay PSA $5 - $50/ card, to tell me that a 2 cent card is NM/MT, MT, or Gem Mint. These cards are best left in Binders, in my opinion.

I also don't see why you couldn't pursue a All-Time PSA graded Dan Marino set, I think it would be best left unweighted due to its size, it just wouldn't be the Master Player set.

Scott J. >>

hmmmmm Thinking about this one and on one foot you are correct it does not make sense money wise. But on the other foot (the collector foot) it makes all the sense in the world. I mean if you are "collecting" and not investing per se there should be no question. A lot of people look at me and say "you paid how much for that piece of cardboard?"

Its a limitation on the collector but not PSA. Why not make it availiable (the registry as described) and let the collector make that choice if he or she wants to make that investment? Thats like saying why have a $50,000 card if no one will ever buy it. Someone will eventually buy it. Someone will (maybe 1 or 2 cards over a period of months) submit those five cent cards for grading just to put them in an all encompassing set. I mean if PSA grades it, it should be "allowed" in some sort of set.

How is the "weight" derived by the way?

sjeanblanc · November 1, 2004 8:05AM

Aknot,

The weighting of sets, is very subjective and I don't believe the specifics have ever been spelled out, but I believe these are all factors in determining the weighting of a card.

1) Status of player (HOF, Superstar, Star, Common)
2) Production run of card ( Short Print, High Series, Variation )
3) Rarity ( At least in the Ryan set OPC's have higher weights than Topps counterparts )

There maybe others, I don't know, but these seem to fit the trends in several sets that I looked at.

Scott J.

Player master set question

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