Some questions about an interesting item and an intrigueing dilemma.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
First, a link to the item.
Now, for some questions and my dilemma.
What do you think of the toning?? While the colors don't necessarily look "bad" to me, the fact that they're only laying across the upper half of the obverse with the effect of emenating from the sun looks a bit manipulated. Perhaps it's just the way the medal came in contact with the case. But, I digress.
Now to the dilemma. The item itself isn't rare but it is rare in the original presentation case, so I guess that means that the case is rare. Whatever!! The case is what's causing the medal to tone and I've seen enough of these to know that left unattended they will turn quite dark. So what to do if I were to win the auction??? My thinking would be to have it holdered by NGC as much to protect it and stabilize the surface as anything else. Doing that seems to negate the importance of the presentation case and relegates it to a singular exonumia item. Of course I could simply purchase another medal and place it in the case and recoup the money!!!!
So, what to do?? Leave it in the case and get stoned off the originality?? Take it out and stabilize the toning but break up the supposed original matched pair??
What a choice. What say you, forum??
Al H.
Now, for some questions and my dilemma.
What do you think of the toning?? While the colors don't necessarily look "bad" to me, the fact that they're only laying across the upper half of the obverse with the effect of emenating from the sun looks a bit manipulated. Perhaps it's just the way the medal came in contact with the case. But, I digress.
Now to the dilemma. The item itself isn't rare but it is rare in the original presentation case, so I guess that means that the case is rare. Whatever!! The case is what's causing the medal to tone and I've seen enough of these to know that left unattended they will turn quite dark. So what to do if I were to win the auction??? My thinking would be to have it holdered by NGC as much to protect it and stabilize the surface as anything else. Doing that seems to negate the importance of the presentation case and relegates it to a singular exonumia item. Of course I could simply purchase another medal and place it in the case and recoup the money!!!!
So, what to do?? Leave it in the case and get stoned off the originality?? Take it out and stabilize the toning but break up the supposed original matched pair??
What a choice. What say you, forum??
Al H.
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Comments
CG
I think the toning is fine and caused by the case.
My understanding is that the case was made in 1876? If that is correct, then I would say the case and coin should stay together. I think a Kointain in the case would be the best way to store it. But if it took 128 years to tone like it is now, you'll be long dead before it turns black.
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funny you should ask the quesiton. I just bough the same so-called dollar (HK-20) on eBay. Here's the link to the so-called dollar that I won.. I was just discussing this issue with the owner of our company yesterday. He wants to have the medal slabbed because it actually turned out nicer than the images would indicate. It's very p/l and the toning is original. I, on the other hand, do not want to break up this set after being together (or so we assume) for 130 years. Will the medal continue to darken in color? That's the question we do not know. I think that it will not change at all if stored in a stable environment. After all, the chemicals in the original packaging should have long since dissipated. Right?
I say leave them together!!!
BTW, that's a nice looking HK-20 that you linked!
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<< <i>Now to the dilemma. The item itself isn't rare but it is rare in the original presentation case, so I guess that means that the case is rare. Whatever!! The case is what's causing the medal to tone and I've seen enough of these to know that left unattended they will turn quite dark. So what to do if I were to win the auction??? My thinking would be to have it holdered by NGC as much to protect it and stabilize the surface as anything else. Doing that seems to negate the importance of the presentation case and relegates it to a singular exonumia item. Of course I could simply purchase another medal and place it in the case and recoup the money!!!! >>
First of all - the toning on the medal looks fine IMHO. Second, considering that in 128 years it has only gotten a swath of toning - I really don't think it's going to tone all that much in the next 80 or so that you have left on this Earth it'll tone a whole helluva lot more
Tend to agree-perhaps a lucite box, sealed against the outside environment but offering a good view will help your unease...
Truly, the two together look great-the originality is fantastic. Keep 'em together! ( If you win the bidding!)
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
how'd that one slip under my radar?? i should send Richard a message and tell him to start using the proper keywords!!!!!! do me a favor and compare what little my linked auction shows of the case with what your case looks like and tell me if it looks authentic to you. i'll have to e-mail the seller and get a description from him to verify that it's original before i place a bid i may regret.
as to leaving them together and further toning, i had considered that most of what toned the medal should have become inert or dissipated by now. from that standpoint, a cointain or some special order from Capital may be the best way to go.
my interest in this particular medal stems from a desire to put together a set of items that celebrates our history from the Declaration to the present day. i'll have to settle for a restrike of the Continental dollar and may have trouble locating an HK-1, but the search for the perfect item is fun and makes me wonder what kind of neat item i can get in 2026!!!!!
al h.
As for what I would recommend - I'm with the slabbing party on this one. At least slow down the corrosion and damage caused by the case by slabbing it. Then you can keep it with or sell it with the case and let the next owner have the same decision to make. If they decide to put it back in the box, all they have to do is crack the slab.
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I would slab it, for safetys sake.....What's the diameter of this piece, and what is the max diameter that is slabbable?
Paul
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rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Kointain seems the way to go to me. If you get is slabbbed it could have separation anxiety and turn black anyway.
If the possibility of some significant hairlines doesn't bother you, and if you get the medal and like it as is, just remove it from the case and put it in a non-PVC flip. When and if you display it, you can rejoin the holder and the medal, short term.
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K S
Keets, the first thing that popped in my head when I looked at the current auction was "that's not an original case". First of all, the condition is too nice. Secondly, there are differences when compared to other original boxes, which are RARE, btw. However, it is possible that more than one style of box was used in 1876. I just don't know and could not find anything in our library to support that possibility. Does anyone else know? If I had the box in hand, I would have a better chance of knowing if it were original, or at least contemporary. If it is an original box, then you must buy it as it would be very rare in such fine condition.
What gets me is how two different people could be selling something so nice and not read it. One says it is a 1776 piece while the other calls it "bicentennial," and neither are correct. Are these people purposefully misrepresenting such a beautiful piece, and why?? Or can they just not read?
Coppercoins, they probably just don't know what they are doing.....honestly. They probably buy this stuff when it walks in the shop without really knowing what it is.
HK-20 is a very historical medal and underrated, imho. The amount of silver medals issued for HK-20 is unknown, but it is believed to be less than 1,000, probably just a few hundred even. There were 7,000 brass medals of the same design issued, but they were struck at the US Mint in Philadelphia, whereas the silver issues were struck right on the grounds of the expo. It was a very important expo, too. It was at this very same expo, just a few buildings down the way, that Alexander Graham Bell displayed his very first telephone. President Grant opened the ceremonies. The expo was in Philadelphia. This was truly a historical event.
To me, so-called dollars and medals represent an area of numismatics that has not yet been exploited by registry competitions and high-dollar gradeflation slabs. It will probably happen, but right now it is a safe haven in my eyes. The HK-20 that is the subject of this thread is actually more rare, in terms of numbers struck, than an 1856 Flying Eagle Cent. I paid $289 for the HK-20 on eBay, but I was expecting to go higher. I was, and still am, just as excited about the case as I was the medal.
PS - I am going to store my HK-20 with the original box in a safe environment. Slabbing a coin in plastic does not mean that it is in a safe environment. We have not seen the effects of a plastic slab on coins after 100 years of storage. My commonsense tells me that it is better to surround a silver medal with aged cloth or paper that to surround it with some strange material that just came from a barrel of crude oil and was processed by mixing it with numerous chemicals to achieve the right color, texture and durometer. Ever crack an ANACS slab? The stench of chemicals is nearly unbearable. LEAVE IT IN THE BOX and store it in a stable, dry location.
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al h.
BTW, the dies were destroyed after striking the silver medals.
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