AT or NT what makes one AT and the other NT???
INXS
Posts: 1,202 ✭
Among toher things chemicals and heat are obviouslty used to artificially tone coins. If a coin is put into a storage holder, a slab, flip, manilla envelope and it tones is this considered AT? If so how does one tell? I would think that there are no NT coins at all since one way or another something has toned the coins, moisture, light, chemical reactions...etc.
Is a coin AT if it is intentionally subjected to a chemical or heat..etc solely to tone that coin and a coin that tones in its holder where the intention was not to tone that coin considered NT??
Inxs
Is a coin AT if it is intentionally subjected to a chemical or heat..etc solely to tone that coin and a coin that tones in its holder where the intention was not to tone that coin considered NT??
Inxs
"Well here's another nice mess you have gotten me into" Oliver Hardy 1930
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
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My 1880 S copper-toned dollar is a classic example of NT outside of a mint bag or roll. The coin, in its carboard "Tidy bowl" holder resided in a regular letter envelope for many years. Both sides were evenly exposed to the paper of the envelope. There are a few fingerprints from the little old lady who owned this coin. I had it holdered by ICG, not for the toning, but to preserve it. I'm thinking it will look 100 years from now the same as it looks today. It's a mere MS 62 in grade. A dealer once offered me $100 for this coin even though it wasn't in the ICG holder at the time. I paid the little old lady $15 for this coin, as I recall, back in the mid '80's.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
An example of AT activity all the way.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
all other NON-natural environments, including flame-throwers, coin albums, baby vomit, paper envelopes, etc etc, are artificial, & induce artificial toning..
it really is that simple.
maybe you were really wanting to ask about "market acceptable toning"?
K S
<< <i>all other NON-natural environments, including flame-throwers, coin albums, baby vomit, paper envelopes, etc etc, are artificial, & induce artificial toning.. >>
Come to think of it, I have seen a few coins that look like a baby puked all over them...
You are begging the question, dorkkarl. I could, but choose not to, make a convincing but fallacious argument that there is no such thing as artificial, its all natural.
How can a coin album not be a "natural" environment for a collectible coin? What is a natural place for one's collection?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
What I am trying to determine is when a coin is considered AT by the coin world and when the coin world agrees that it is natural toning. I think Joeyuk hit it right on the head instead of calling it artificial toning it should be called accelerated toning.
Inxs
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
A natural place of storage always produces natural toning.
Agree or disagree?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
I think the answer to the question should be:
"How long did it take to tone that way"?
It took about 20 years for my uncirculated 1880 S dollar to assume its lovely copper toning.
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
recently by DMWJR. I felt it summed it up nicely.
I think toned coins are pretty but as far as value I am not sure
if it should raise or lower the value. It seems "market acceptable"
determines if it is at or nt. If it looks good enough it is genuine
toning. I'm glad counterfeits are not held to this same standard.
After reading a thread on toning I put a white peace dollar in a
zip lock bag with some diced raw onions. Boy the pretty colors.
Nice fading of one color to another. Maybe I'll put it in a 2X2 and
let my estate sell it.
What are the colors produced by the onion pieces? White or yellow onion?
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
don't recall the type of onion. Sulfur content in the onion is what
I believe caused it.
pics added
well, NT seems to be when the other guy owns it.....
But, I will say that, IMHO, storing coins in any environment that you know will cause a change in the appearance of your collectibles is not good stewardship in the long haul as collectors.
<<How can a coin album not be a "natural" environment for a collectible coin? What is a natural place for one's collection?>> - MR1874
Well, I'd say that's when you know the album will change the appearance of the coin from when you obtained the coin. The best storage place is not necessarily going to fit arbitrary definitions of "natural".
Best,
Billy
<< <i>A Premise:
A natural place of storage always produces natural toning.
Agree or disagree? >>
almost agree, not a natural place of "storage", but really a natural place of "existence", ie. where does the coin "belong"? most of the time, the answer is "circulation".
for 19th century proofs, the answer might be "in tissue paper", so the resulting toning be natural.
it is not natural for a 1932-d quarter to be in tissue paper, hence such a coin, no matter how stunning & beautiful, is ARTIFICIALLY toned, even though it might be extremely desirable & MARKET ACCPETABLE.
but your on the right track. see my earlier post
K S
Ah, but dorkarl, the natural place of existence (at least for morgan dollars) was inside the mint bags! The mint produced quantities far greater than needed, and the excess were stored by the mint, in mint bags, within the mint! After about 60 years, beautifully toned pieces. Your not gonna try and tell me the US Mint was the first coin Dr?
To me, artificial toning is the purposeful acceleration of the toning process. I think that's about as simple an explanation as I can give.
<< <i>Ah, but dorkarl, the natural place of existence (at least for morgan dollars) was inside the mint bags! >>
correct, which is why mint-bag toning on morgans is always NATURAL toning.
K S
that made me wonder what someone who does not know what they are doing could
accomplish. By coincidence my 12 year old is studying chemical/physical changes in
school and his science teacher is looking forward to having the coin passed around.
I am sending a nice white Morgan in with it to compare. Who knows maybe the kids
will walk away with " old money is cool".