My apologies to you modern haters, but man I LOVE these coins!

Russ

I love the story behind them, and I love the challenge of trying to find them in this state of preservation, with this degree of mirror depth and spot and hairline free!

Behold the latest PCGS graded PR68CAM Accented Hair Kennedy:





POP 35/0, and this is the third one I've made.

Russ, NCNE

SQLgeek

I feel the same.

Woohooo 50 post.

astrorat

Okay, I'll bite. What's the story behind the accented hair Kennedy halves?

Lane

eyoung429

Russ, unfortunately there is only one other thing........YOU SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JrGMan2004

It's the thrill of the hunt and the potential profit that draws me to this area of Numismatics

kieferscoins

Russ's website explains them

Cameron Kiefer

Russ

<< <i>Okay, I'll bite. What's the story behind the accented hair Kennedy halves? >>



Click here.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins

I beat Russ to his own link!

Cameron Kiefer

paigowjohnny

cosmicdebris

Hey you know if you keep making these their value is only going to go down.

Numismanic

Congrats! Very nice contrast.

Russ

<< <i>Hey you know if you keep making these their value is only going to go down. >>



Not necessarily. It depends on what the demand side of the equation does. Besides, the Accented Hair is the toughest coin in the series for cameo; even more difficult than any of the SMS coins. So, even if I did impact values, I'm still joyous whenever I make one.

Russ, NCNE

PhillyJoe

Very cool.

Highest graded cameo for the PCGS accented hair!

At the moment.

Joe

tjkillian

Since we are looking at a very nice half dollar, what are those marks on his neck? Die polish? Part of the die?

In the eagle's sheild, what are those marks? On the original planchet that did not get removed when striking? Die polish? Light reflection?

Tom

ss350camaro

VERY nice Russ !!!

astrorat

Russ-

Nice coin and when the proofs are clean with great contrast, they are a pretty site.

While the story may be interesting and romantic, it seems a bit hard to digest.

1. While it may have been reported that Jackie K. did not admire the design, the design was already in the works before Kennedy was shot. This is why it was "simple" to have a coin in production weeks following Kennedy's death. She was consulted about the coin and may have made suggestions, but nothing that would have had significant impact on the design.

2. If the Mint wanted to pander to Jackie K. and change the design, why only alter a single obverse die? Why not alter the master hub? More likely, a die was "accented" post hubbing as a way to improve the flatness of the device.

3. Did the Mint really believe that such a modest change would satisfy the former First Lady? Let's face it, the difference between the two is very minor and Jackie K. was not unintelligent.

Am I all wet with this line of thinking, Russ? What are your thoughts?

Lane

P.S. With all the bitter exchanges on the forum recently, I just want to be sure that this is not taken as an attack on Russ, Kennedy halves, or moderns in general. I am serious about a discussion and interested in the outcome.

Weiss

Very nice, Russ. What do you expect the '68s are worth?

Russ

<< <i>Since we are looking at a very nice half dollar, what are those marks on his neck? >>



If you're referring to what looks similar to a fingerprint, it's part of the design. One of the ways to tell if a coin is fully struck is to look at that area. The more visible, the more well struck.



<< <i>In the eagle's sheild, what are those marks? >>



All Accented Hairs, (and transitionals with RDV-001), suffer from shield pitting to one degree or another. It's as minted.

Russ, NCNE

JxnBoy

This thread is 100% - ahhhhh, whatever. You Suck.

cladking

<< <i>

POP 35/0, and this is the third one I've made.

Russ, NCNE >>




Very impresssive! I'm sure this wasn't easy.

PhillyJoe

Lane, from my perspective, the Mint was going to get Mrs. Kennedy's approval on a Wednesday or Thurday. The dies were ready several days before. The Mint Director, anticipating a huge demand and expecting Jackie's blessings, began production on that Monday. The alternative was to have the presses idle for several days and not pay the workers. The changes were subtle, but the characteristics of the accented hair, i.e. the missing serif and the broken rays, tell me this puppy was zoomed through quality control. Forty years later and no one knows how many were made; but this is one of the nicer ones.

And yes, the design was taken from the Presidential medal, but that only speeded up the process a little bit. Start to finish only took a couple of weeks; we will never see this kind of production ever take place again.

Joe

Bubblehead

Forty years later and no one knows how many were made; but this is one of the nicer ones.
Text
No winking guy here... I believe Russ must have some idea...

Russ

<< <i>1. While it may have been reported that Jackie K. did not admire the design, the design was already in the works before Kennedy was shot. This is why it was "simple" to have a coin in production weeks following Kennedy's death. She was consulted about the coin and may have made suggestions, but nothing that would have had significant impact on the design. >>



I don't know where you heard that the design was already in the works prior to his assasination, but it's not true. It is based on an existing sculpture, but there was no design development work for the coin itself done at the mint until after his death. And, it was certainly not "simple" to get it in to production. The mint and everyone involved was in total chaos rushing to get it out. That's one of the reasons the coin is so difficult to find in high grade. Procedures were sloppy as hell at the time.



<< <i>2. If the Mint wanted to pander to Jackie K. and change the design, why only alter a single obverse die? Why not alter the master hub? More likely, a die was "accented" post hubbing as a way to improve the flatness of the device. >>



The Accented Hair obverse die was ODV-001, the first die produced and was not supposed to have been used until after the meeting between mint officials and family members.



<< <i>3. Did the Mint really believe that such a modest change would satisfy the former First Lady? >>



Not only did they believe it, it did. The problem is that they had already produced approximately 50 obverse dies and somebody, (nobody really knows who), decided to go in to production prior to final approval.

You have to remember that this was a very tumultous period in the history of the mint and, while it might seem ridiculous today that a design would be changed based on the whims of a first lady, you must bear in mind that this was a first lady married to a very popular president who had just been murdered and everyone involved was very sensitive to her feelings.

There is also a lot more to the story - many other players, both family, mint employees and politicians involved - to which I'm not yet privy. However, there is a book in the works based on over a decade of research that I'm hoping will be out soon. PhillyJoe has been in contact with the author.

Russ, NCNE

relayer

Congrats on another great score

The only thing I can think Jackie would even care about on the hair is that because JFK was shot in the head, it may have somehow stood out as having a hole in the head?

Other than that, I think the reasons for the change were probably more technical - like fixing the "I" as Joe stated

astrorat

Thanks. When I referred to a design already ready, I was referring to a medal, not the coin. Of course, no one would have anticipated needing a coin for JFK in 1964.

While I do appreciate the argument, the idea that a single die ONLY was accented as the direct result of the First Lady seems far-fetched to me (not impossible, just a little out there). If the Mint were to accent the hair at the request of the First Lady, they would have certainly done more than just one die. She was so revered that they would have done anything she asked (in my opinion). My understanding is that she provided her opinion on the coin's design (as adopted from the medal) and not just one die. Obviously, I have not researched this as much as Russ or Joe and would indeed like to learn more.

The coin evidence seems to speak against the theory that the First Lady caused only one die to be accented. But then again, perhaps there is documentation to support that.

Also, how do we know that the accented die was the first produced (ODV-001)? Was that a designation from the Mint or a later author/researcher?

Lane

SanctionII

In contrast to my usual lengthy posts, I will simply say:

I like it; I want it; can I have it?; Please.

Russ

<< <i>Thanks. When I referred to a design already ready, I was referring to a medal, not the coin. >>



The bust of the coin is actually quite different than the mint medal, and required quite a bit of engraving work. For one thing, it's substantially lower relief.



<< <i>While I do appreciate the argument, the idea that a single die ONLY was accented as the direct result of the First Lady seems far-fetched to me (not impossible, just a little out there). If the Mint were to accent the hair at the request of the First Lady, they would have certainly done more than just one die. >>



You have it in reverse. The Accented Hair die was produced prior to approval and was nixed by Jackie, not asked for by Jackie. The already produced die was than re-engraved to both accomodate her wishes and to fix a couple of perceived flaws (the truncated serif, for example).



<< <i>The coin evidence seems to speak against the theory that the First Lady caused only one die to be accented. But then again, perhaps there is documentation to support that. >>



Again, you have it in reverse. See above.



<< <i>Also, how do we know that the accented die was the first produced (ODV-001)? Was that a designation from the Mint or a later author/researcher? >>



That information is based primarily on two sources, both of whom gleened the information directly from mint records. The first being Walter Breen, and the second being James Wiles, the die variety attributor for Coneca, and author of the definitive work on the Kennedy Half Dollar. The mint doesn't designate dies, that's a Coneca thing.

Russ, NCNE

wildjag

Very nice coin. But You Suck

mgoodm3

Nice modern.

astrorat

While I understand what you are saying, Russ, what documentation exists to support the story? It is not that I doubt you, per se, I am just not convinced. While I have heard many theories, I have not seen any evidence. Hopefully when the book (mentioned earlier) is written, additional light may be shed.

Interesting discussion.

Lane

Russ

<< <i>Russ, what documentation exists to support the story? >>



Contemporaneous memorandum from the US mint.

Russ, NCNE

JRocco

Congrats Russ. I, for one, have an incredible amount of respect for the amount of work you have done and knowledge you have acquired when it come to Kennedy halves. I take my hat off to you for your dedication to what interest you. I truly respect you for that.

Fairlaneman

Back to the thread title. Probably it is not a case of Moderns being hated but probably a case that they are not understood. That applies here for sure. Some are very nice looking coins and some are well.......

Ken

Baley

Beautiful coin, I'd love to own one like it.

morgannut2

Actually today I think the only one who would know about those consultations with Mrs. Kennedy would be her former chief of staff. Her name is Mrs. Liz Carpenter and I believe she is still alive and active in politics in the Austin Texas area. The LBJ Library my have her Email address or a forwarding address available after the election when she might have the time clarify discussions or any Texas or Boston Presidential Library documentation.

PhillyJoe

Eva Adams, Director of the Mint and Gilroy Roberts, the Designer, met with Jackie and Robert Kennedy and discussed the half dollar design at dinner. I do not know if Eva is alive or provided her notes to anyone. Gilroy died around 1991; his biography is one I would like to read.

Joe

Newmismatist

<< <i>POP 35/0, and this is the third one I've made. >>



Russ, do you own 'em all??!!

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>Russ, what documentation exists to support the story? >>



Contemporaneous memorandum from the US mint.

Russ, NCNE >>



That specifically supports that Mrs. Kennedy reviewed already prepared dies and that only one was altered by accenting the hair? Interesting, would you happen to have an image of the document as I know a couple of folks who would love to read it?

Lane

Russ

<< <i>That specifically supports that Mrs. Kennedy reviewed already prepared dies and that only one was altered by accenting the hair? >>



For some reason, you still aren't getting it. As I've already explained, the first lady did not ask that the die be altered to accent the hair. She asked that it be altered to remove the accented hair. About 50 obverse dies had already been produced and used to mint coins prior to her request. After her request, the master die was re-tooled.



<< <i>Interesting, would you happen to have an image of the document as I know a couple of folks who would love to read it? >>



No, I don't. I'm relying on the research and word of two of the foremost authorities. I have no reason to believe that they are incorrect.

Russ, NCNE

PhillyJoe

Here's what I like. Russ & fellow member Edson both have a PCGS Pr68 Deep Cameo Accented Hair out of the 8 known. Not only is the 1964 Kennedy proof an interesting one year only issue (proofs resumed in 1968 as silver clads), the ACCENTED HAIR is a ONE WEEK ONLY covert issue. Russ has a proof that was one of the first hundred or so made; Monday morning, half an hour after the presses started making the new Kennedy proofs.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

The one that started this thread was made shortly thereafter; probably around breaktime.

Joe

astrorat

Okay, Russ, apparently I was not understanding what you were trying to say. So, let me see if I get this straight . . .

The First Lady was asked about the design and she asked that they be altered to remove the "accented hair"?

In other words, the accented die was the original and the non-accented (accent removed) is the "updated" version per Mrs. Kennedy's wishes?

Am I on track now?

Lane

mojorizn

Outstanding! Congratulations, Russ! And thank you for the enlightening history lesson.

mojo

stman

<< <i>My apologies to you modern haters, but man I LOVE these coins! >>



No apology necessary. Just you admitting it is indeed a modern in the title is satisfaction at it's finest.

Russ

<< <i>The First Lady was asked about the design and she asked that they be altered to remove the "accented hair"?

In other words, the accented die was the original and the non-accented (accent removed) is the "updated" version per Mrs. Kennedy's wishes? >>



Correct. That's why it's Coneca designated ODV-001, because it was the first die. ODV-002 is the regular proof.

Edited to add: Bite me, Stman.

Russ, NCNE

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>The First Lady was asked about the design and she asked that they be altered to remove the "accented hair"?

In other words, the accented die was the original and the non-accented (accent removed) is the "updated" version per Mrs. Kennedy's wishes? >>



Correct. That's why it's Coneca designated ODV-001, because it was the first die. ODV-002 is the regular proof.

Edited to add: Bite me, Stman.

Russ, NCNE >>





Great, because the way I originally was thinking about the progression, it just seemed illogical and unlikely. I look forward to the research being published. Thanks, Russ.

Lane

BigMoose

Russ, even though I am not a great fan of most moderns, I gotta tell you, those cameo proof Accented Hair Kennedies are absolutely beautiful. Congratulations! I suspect you will be the first person to make a 68 or 69 DeepCam.

Russ

<< <i>I suspect you will be the first person to make a 68 or 69 DeepCam. >>



Already made a PR68DCAM - one of the 8 graded at that level. My mission in life is to make the first PR69DCAM. I wouldn't mind an interim step with the first PR69CAM though.

Russ, NCNE

BigMoose

Impressive! I don't think even MadMarty has made a PR68DCam.

Russ

<< <i>I don't think even MadMarty has made a PR68DCam. >>



Nope, but he did make the one and only DCAM that has been graded this year - a PR67DCAM. That's plenty huge in itself!

Russ, NCNE

ursabear

Yes, Russ, Indeedily. You suck.

But I still think those are a fine and cool coin.