What's up with "EAC" grades that are lower than everyone else's?

Baley

I see this over and over again.. someone will post an early US copper coin, and someone will offer the opinion that goes along the lines of "PCGS (or market, or "commercial") EF-40, EAC VF-25 (bold added for emphasis)

I ask, what good does this do anyone? why does this EAC grade the coins lower (as it is always, always lower, you never see it the other way, the market calls it a VF and EAC says EF)

Furthermore, ask for a price quote from these so-called EACers, and they quote a price that is right in line with the market, for example, even though they call it "EAC-25" as if they're sooo conservative graders, the price of the damned coin is the same as everyone else's extra fine coin.

Can someone explain this to me?

JadeRareCoin

Can someone explain this to me?

Sure. I am an EAC member, so I have a little bit of insight regarding this issue. The stricter EAC grading is simply a continuation of Dr. Sheldon's grading scale, which was developed for large cents. It has, however, developed into something else. In my opinion, some EAC'ers will brag about their strict grading standards as a way of saying, "hey, you guys don't know early copper like us, so why don't you learn how to grade!". It's back to that dang ego thing.

You hit the nail on the head by stating that their prices are consistent with the market value, regardless of the grading opinion. I continual state that coins should be graded by price, which is truly the bottom line for all of us.

On a side note: to help translate EAC grades into current market value, you should have a copy of Bill Noye's Penny Prices, which provides values for the EAC grading system. The same guide slams 3rd party grading in a severe way.

The really bad thing is when you get some shmuck on eBay who has a slabbed piece of early copper and he is trying to use Penny Prices to make a case for the insane starting price or BIN. That's what ticks me off.

Don't let it bother you. Just focus on the price and leave it at that. That is what I do.

michael

jaderarecoin sums this up extremely well


michael

OnlyBuffalos

The objective of EAC grading is to take into account the problems that are often present on large cents and half cents that primarily grade VF20 and above. Defects such as hairlines, recoloring, spots, cleaning, nicks, dings and the large number of other problems that detract from early copper coins are the focus.

EAC coins have a sharpness grade, a net grade and a description with all being important.

EAC assigns a sharpness grade to a coin that considers mint-made problems (planchet flaws, clips, die breaks, ...); man-made problems (holes, rim bruises, whizzing, cleaning, scratches,...); environmental problems; and excessive circulation problems. (For simplicity, think of the sharpness grade as the ANACS grade.)

Now for the EAC grade or net grade. For the various grade levels, emphasis varies. For example, on an XF coin, the key focus is on color and surfaces. Very minor problems carry less weight than on a higher grade coin. Eye appeal is important. For AU coins and uncirculated coins, luster, color, and surfaces are paramount. Eye appeal is extremely important. All defects are important.

For all grades, a description which mentions every defect is noted and is extremely important. Every coin has a description which helps justify why a specific net grade was assigned. The net grade is the grade given after taking into account the sharpness grade and deducting for defects. Within each grade, there are coins which are identified as scudzy, average and choice. A choice coin will have exceptional color and problem-free surfaces. There are of course, almost choice, nearly choice, average plus and other general descriptors used.

Depending on rarity, choice coins can bring an enormous premium especially on the very early copper coins.

As a general rule, slabbed coins are not desired, as the slab can hide defects such as hairlines and show a luster that may not exist.

On average, a PCGS coin graded XF will have an EAC grade of VF30, a PCGS AU coin will be an EAC XF40.

Like other coins and other grading standards, there is a difference between coins of the same EAC grade and the prices each coin realizes. EAC collectors generally prefer a net choice VF30 coin over a net average XF40 coin and they would be priced accordingly. Similarly they would prefer a choice coin with a lower sharpness grade over an average coin with a somewhat higher sharpness grade.

Needless to say, there is a still a lot of subjectivity involved and as always the coin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

roadrunner

One advantage to EAC grades is that the grading has stayed constant over time. Therefore you can compare today's VF25 with one from 20 years ago. This is certainly not the case for market grading.

roadrunner

dorkkarl

i'm surprised that this is still a confusing issue. i & others have explained it numerous times!

ok, lets say you have a large cent that grades commercial vf-20. trends shows a value of $100. that's grading according to "generic" market grading.

let's say eac grades the exact same coin f-12. eac does NOT USE "TRENDS". the eac price guide is cqr "copper quotes". in the eac price guide, you are likely to find that f-12 just happens to have a value of ......... $100.

so the point is, THEY USE DIFFERENT GRADING STANDARDS, BUT STILL VALUE COINS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME.

you MUST use the correct price guide for the grading standard. it is stupid to take an eac grade & look up the value for that grade in trends, because trends uses "market grading", not "eac grading".

the fact of the matter is, market grading came LONG AFTER eac grades, and market grading is the "corruption" of eac standards, not the other way around. becuase of the lax standards of market gradeing, that is why you have such a narrow range (60 - 70 = 11 points) for your UNC coins. many coins that are only au are market-graded unc.

w/ eac standards, unc standards are much more strict, so the narrow unc range (60-70) applies to fewer coins, meaning it's possible to grade them more accurately & reliably.

bottom line: USE THE RIGHT PRICE GUIDE FOR THE GRADING STANDARD.

K S

Coin Finder

All here have made excellent points. There are other factors to consider for myself. The most recent auction of early large cents brought prices far and above trends, It was as if the grade did not even matter but the CONDITION did.

I have listened intently as two experienced copper guys go at over CQ by Robinson and Penny Prices. Some copper guys that sell for a full time living do not use either price guide.

I like the early dates and I cannot affort Mint State so a nice fine or very fine or even good is OK with me as long as the coin has nice appeal and surfaces and is original.

I think a copper grading scale of Scudzy, Average and Choice is a bit limiting. I look at it this way:

What wear grade is it? vf, xf?

Then what is the condition:

Scudzy (lump of lava)

Scudzy plus (can I live with this?)

Average (I kinda like it)

Average Plus (I Like it)

Choice Minus (Have to have it)

Choice (near Perfect coin) (Buy it if possible)

Choice plus (Perfection) (Wish I could afford it)

I am new to EAC so I will stop here. It is a different learning process then learning to grade by looking at slabs.

Tbig