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The PENNY?? Is it worth a damn monetarily speaking? And how high do cent sets go if discontinued??

The practical use of the penny has pretty much been established as negligable in recent years. Yet it's an "American Institution" that has endured as the first coin minted in the US until today. Every kid has collected pennies...

"A penny saved is a penny earned" (Ben Franklin.)
"A penny for your thoughts?" (every dumb high-school girl in the 20's-30's-40's.image)
"If I had a penny for every time...." (ususally bitter people who never got their due!)

The all-American coin...alas isn't practical anymore!image

But IF the mint were to discontinue the minting of them, would we see a dramatic rise in the value of the better ones?? Betcha we wouldimage

Comments?????
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Comments

  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    I think the penny now costs more than a penny to mint-that could cut it's life short quickly.

    I think CW reported that the Euro equivalent to the cent is massively unpopular where it circulates. Some (at least a couple) of European countries have now instituted rounding in their pricing which makes it's practical use, as you say, negligible.

    And yet, who wouldn't be sad to see the Lincoln cent go...image Perhaps it will simply be minted as the half dollars and dollars are minted today-for collectors only.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
  • LALASD4LALASD4 Posts: 3,602 ✭✭✭
    If we really do not use it, they would not produce so much of it, 5.5 billion produce so far this year!.
    Coin Collector, Chicken Owner, Licensed Tax Preparer & Insurance Broker/Agent.
    San Diego, CA


    image


  • << <i>The practical use of the penny has pretty much been established as negligable in recent years. >>



    That's an incorrect statement. The penny has had the same purpose for the last 10 years and will be around for 10 more. I know everything can be rounded up or down but as long as there is sales tax, the cent will exist.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This discussion again? image

    Ok, I'll say the same thing I always say: stop making the cent, bring back the 2 cent coin! (and make it in between the size of a current cent and a nickel)

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    Skip the TWO CENTER, go to nickles. It's so "penny ante"!image
    image
  • haletjhaletj Posts: 2,192
    The Lincoln Cent will be the Morgan Dollar of the late 21st century. People will speak of bid and ask for a common date ms65 Memorial (which will have pops in the 10,000's). The mintmarked teens and twenties will be like your 89-cc,93-s Morgans and some dates all the way up to 1997 might remain rare in top grades.
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Discontinue the one cent. Start minting a $10 silver coin similar in size and design of the draped bust dollar. Throw in a few overdates occasionally. Also, a $1000 gold coin.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no practical value whatsoever to the cent because the cost to
    use it is greater than its face value. It actually has a negative value.
    Human time and effort are wasted in its production, distribution, and
    usage. If it were discontinued everyone would be at least a little wealthier.
    There would be less pollution from the mining and smelting of the ore and
    the fuel to mint and distribute the coin.

    Getting rid of the coin would also protect babies and animals from the danger
    of being poisoned by the zinc should they swallow a scratched coin.

    Discontinuance of the coin in circulation would create a lot of additional
    interest in collecting the coin. This would apply especially to the memorial
    issues but wouls extend across the board to all US cents and coppers. In
    the long run it will hurt their collectibility but for the first decade or two it
    would be a huge boost.
    Tempus fugit.
  • Then how do you collect sales tax on the multitude of purchases at a buck or two that add up to hundreds of billions each year. As long as there is sales tax, there will be cents.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Then how do you collect sales tax on the multitude of purchases at a buck or two that add up to hundreds of billions each year. As long as there is sales tax, there will be cents. >>



    Right now the sales tax in most states kicks in at odd amounts like 16c, 33c, 50c etc.
    In an age when even a candy bar costs 75c, the tax will simply be 5c and kick in at
    50c, $1.50 etc.

    Ultimately it doesn't really matter since they'll just raise the tax in the long run any way.
    The tax is simply not affected to any real degree when it usually totals well over a quar-
    ter anyway.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Modern cash registers have the tax programmed right into them so making change
    or figuring out the new tax will be invisable to nearly all users and consumers.
    Tempus fugit.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,530 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they should stop making the cent, except for proof and mint sets, maybe.

    I do not think it should be demonetized, however.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    I love the idea of a $1000 gold coin!! POWER!!!image
    image
  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I know everything can be rounded up or down but as long as there is sales tax, the cent will exist. >>



    This would be incredibly inflationary (the elimination of the cent and subsequent rounding up). Whereas the government spends so much time and effort trying to convince us there is no inflation, to stop minting the cent would hurt their case too deeply......
    Paul
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭


    << <i>As long as there is sales tax, there will be cents. >>

    This is faulty logic. How do you collect a 5% sales tax on a 99 cent item? The tax would be 4.95 cents. You round up or down. So the new rounding is to the nearest 5 cents. (Actually, doing a way with the nickel at the same time would simplify the math... )
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • They should find a cheaper alternative to zinc for making pennies, but they shouldn't be discontinued. Do you really want all your purchases rounded up to the next nickel?? It doesn't sound like much, but over the course of a lifetime, it can add up to a lot.
    image
    image
  • hughesm1hughesm1 Posts: 778 ✭✭


    << <i>Then how do you collect sales tax on the multitude of purchases at a buck or two that add up to hundreds of billions each year. As long as there is sales tax, there will be cents. >>



    Easy, you do as is done in Europe. The sales tax (VAT) is included in the price of everything (what is posted is what you pay.) Items would be priced ending in either 5 or 0. As for complaints on how hard it will be for business to calculate the amount of tax collected, when the final count is done at the end of the day, the cash register will automatically calculate how much tax has been collected.
    Mark
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    This would be incredibly inflationary (the elimination of the cent and subsequent rounding up). Whereas the government spends so much time and effort trying to convince us there is no inflation, to stop minting the cent would hurt their case too deeply......
    Paul >>



    Paul,
    Your assumption that the elimination of the one cent piece from circulation would automatically be inflationary due to "rounding up" is just plain wrong and incorrect logic IMHO.

    Steveimage
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    "If I had a penny for every time...."

    Funny I always heard that one as "If I had a nickel for every time..." (inflation I guess)


    "But IF the mint were to discontinue the minting of them, would we see a dramatic rise in the value of the better ones?? Betcha we would"

    I don't think so, the change from copper to copper/zinc made no difference, and neither will terminating their production.


    " I think the penny now costs more than a penny to mint-that could cut it's life short quickly."

    I don't think that's true; otherwise, they would have all the ammunition needed to terminate them.



    "This would be incredibly inflationary (the elimination of the cent and subsequent rounding up)."

    Wrong, purchases ending in 0 stay 0; 1 & 2 would round down to 0; 3 & 4, would round up to 5; 5 would stay 5; 6 & 7 would round down to 5; and 8 & 9 would round up to 10 (2 unchanged, 4 up, and 4 down means that overall there would be no net gain or loss).





    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    This would be incredibly inflationary (the elimination of the cent and subsequent rounding up). Whereas the government spends so much time and effort trying to convince us there is no inflation, to stop minting the cent would hurt their case too deeply......
    Paul >>



    Paul,
    Your assumption that the elimination of the one cent piece from circulation would automatically be inflationary due to "rounding up" is just plain wrong and incorrect logic IMHO.

    Steveimage >>



    Hi Steve,
    I appreciate your comment....
    If 'rounding-up' the price of an item,which by definition, raises the cost of that item, isn't iflationary.....Then what is it?
    Paul
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    didn't you read this?

    purchases ending in 0 stay 0; 1 & 2 would round down to 0; 3 & 4, would round up to 5; 5 would stay 5; 6 & 7 would round down to 5; and 8 & 9 would round up to 10 (2 unchanged, 4 up, and 4 down means that overall there would be no net gain or loss).

    rounding both Up and Down would occur.

    Also, you don't round the price of EACH item, you round the TOTAL of purchases plus the tax applied to the TOTAL (which is already done to the nearest cent)

    And as has been stated, this rounding to the nearest 5 already happens in many countries and the sky hasn't fallen.

    elimination of the cent coin is not a matter of IF, but of WHEN

    (we used to have a half cent coin... until it became impractical)

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭
    I think they will discontinue its use in circulation.

    Also when it is discontinued purchases can be rounded off and no difference will be seen.

    Example:
    You purchase 3 items for 69, 69, and 99 cents total is 2.39 + 5% sales tax of 11.95 cents rounded to 12 cents (sales tax already rounded off) = 2.51. Your cost would be $2.50 rounded down.

    Any item emding in 1 or 2 cents would round down, 3 or 4 cents round up, in the long run all parties will break even.

    Better start buying bulk wheaties image

    Rookie Joe
    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭
    "Penny counters are Pikers." Grandpa Simpson

    Get off the penny standard. Even the nickle is questionable at this point!!!
    image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Hi Steve,
    I appreciate your comment....
    If 'rounding-up' the price of an item,which by definition, raises the cost of that item, isn't iflationary.....Then what is it?
    Paul >>



    There is no need to raise the price of anything because of the lack of a one cent coin in
    circulation. Rounding is a wash. Pure and simple, unless someone carefully adds his pur-
    chases and arranges them such that they always total an amount the rounds downward,
    then there will be the same number of transactions rounded up as rounded down.

    Imagine being at the grocery and trying to make the total come up ending in a two or a
    seven so that you can come out ahead on the deal! It simply isn't reasonable to expect
    this to happen or for anyone to profit by it. Now imagine the store owner setting prices
    so as to make totals come up ending in a three or an eight. This is orders of magnitude
    more difficult in most situations.

    It's exactly the same way with tax after the total purchase is greater than a dollar or two.
    If you're paying 5% tax in your state then the tax might kick in at each increment of twenty
    cents. An 89c candy bar would cost 93c with tax. If the cent were eliminated the 5c would
    simply have to kick in at some other level. The nickel might kick in at $1 or it might be set lower
    but the point is you can still charge any tax rate that a state has by taxing the total sale at
    that rate.

    Far from being inflationary, the elimination of the cent would free up resources, and time for
    more productive endeavors and would result in savings for everyone. Not having a cent
    would make checkout lines move more quickly (sometimes far more quickly), and would cause
    less pollution and consumption of resources.

    There are other more profound ways in which the cent is a drag on the economy and the coun-
    try but they are really OT in this thread. It seems sufficient to say that the coin has a negative
    value which actually makes them less than worthless. If you don't believe this than ask your-
    self what is lost when five people wait in line as someone at the front counts out twenty or thirty
    pennies. Ask yourself what these five people would be doing if they weren't stuck in this line.
    Now multiply this by the millions of times this happens each year. How many lives are wasted
    in this manner? And for what??? So at the end of the year a person has a damn bucket of pen-
    nies to haul to bank instead of a fifth of a bucket of nickels.

    The only useful function the smallest unit of change serves is to smooth out a transaction. In the
    distant past if a man wanted to trade a cart of hay for a pig it might be complicated by their un-
    equal value. If the pig were worth a little less than the hay then the pig owner would need some-
    thing else to even out the trade. It could be difficult to balance trade. With money, this was no longer
    a problem. The value of the load of hay is agreed upon and the deal is done. But the value of the load
    of hay is far greater than the value of the smallest unit of currency. Indeed the value of everything is
    far higher than the smallest unit of currency.
    Does anyone really believe that there is something
    sacrosanct about the 89c price of a candy bar? Would a few more cents or a few less cents in the price
    cause the collapse of the time space continuum or the end of western civilization? No, prices are set
    by retailers based on many criteria but the size of 1c increments is not among them. For proof just
    look at what happens when they raise the price; they will invariably raise it to the next highest number
    ending in a nine. It becomes 99c not 90c.

    The cent is an anachronism whose time really ended many years ago. The high mintages are
    not a reflection of its importance, they are caused by people valuing them so little that they are de-
    stroyed and lost. High mintages are a reflection of the lack of value of this "coin".

    Tempus fugit.
  • I thought I read recently where (example since my memory isn't perfect) $10M million in cents cost $9.9M to produce so there was a little question as to how long the mint would continue production. I was surprised the mint didn't include shipping and handling and say the cent was a money losing proposition.

    I keep thinking the cent and paper dollar production are jobs programs. I thought the cent was 60% of the mints work and eliminating it would "free up" 55% of the mint's workforce. Similar numbers for the paper dollar.

    IMHO stop producing the cent AND the paper dollar.
    Some call it an accumulation not a collection

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