Any DMPL Morgans in PCGS Gen-1 "Rattlers" Out There??

Stuart

Please see the following David Hall Q&A thread. DMPL Rattlers ?? -- D.H. Q&A Thread

I'd appreciate if someone could definitively let us know when PCGS began attributing the DMPL designation to Morgan Dollars, and whether it was during, or after the small Gen-1 "Rattler" slabs were being used.

Does anyone have (or have you seen) any DMPL designated Morgans in Gen-1 "Rattlers"?? Thanks!

coincollector1989

Stuart I believe I have one in a rattler holder its a CC but its been in the safety deposit box for so long I dont remember the date. I bought it from Rare Coins of New Hamsphire about a year ago. Ask tonelover he may be able to pull that record for you, and confirm it.

RotatedRainbows

I have one in an old rattler so I know they do exist, bought it around '88 or '89. Had a few others in rattlers but around 1990 (when PCGS came out with their new style holder used today) they had a program where you could send in 10 coins to be reholdered for free so I sent in 10 PL and DMPL coins to be put into the new green label slabs. One of them is an 1878 8TF in 63 DMPL, the obverse almost looks full proof the mirrors are sooooo deep with frosty devices. I still have 8 of the 10 coins I sent in.

Wolf359

Stuart,

Saw one in a dealer case at Spring Baltimore Show...1884-CC MS65 DMPL. Cheap at $625 when they go for 1,000. Kinda weak mirrors though. After I walked away, it keep nagging at me, so I decided to buy it. When I went back the dealer had packed and gone

Stuart

Thanks for your posts. Based on the replies so far, I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the DMPL Morgan Dollar designation was likely introduced about the time that the old Gen-1 "Rattlers" were being phased out.

If this presumption is correct, then it is possible that many of the originally PL graded Morgans in "Rattlers" may have also qualified for DMPL status. Following that line of logic, the remaining amount of potential PL to DMPL upgrades would depend on how many old rattlers exist in old collections which have not yet been cherry-picked and resubmitted for deep mirror surface designation...

K6AZ

I think you will find this a moot point, since I haven't seen a PL rattler in some time. I would guess that virtually all of them have been cracked and submitted to get the DMPL designation.

Stuart

Eric: I agree with you that this potential DMPL upgrade line of reasoning may not be very productive for most Gen-1 "rattler" holdered coins which have been actively traded in the nuismatic marketplace -- because the low-hanging upgrade fruit has alreay been harvested (or tried for upgrade).

However, every now and then one may find a PL Morgan in a Gen-1 rattler holder, like this one that I recently purchased on E-Bay, which may have been isolated in a collection for many years and perhaps was not yet submitted for an upgrade. Especially since only in the past couple of years have the DMPL Morgan prices really rocketed higher to make the regrades commercially attractive.

As I'm sure you know (as a fellow CC Morgan collector) a couple of years ago you could cherry-pick PL/DMPL Morgans for 10-20% above greysheet prices for standard mint state coins.

Upon receiving it and examining it, a fellow forum member and I feel that it's very close (if not) DMPL. The mirrors are fairly deep and watery looking...

stman

Stuart, it is my opinion MANY of the DMPL Morgans in "Old rattle holders" that are on the market these days are marginal DMPL at best. PCGS seems to be tougher on these currently. So IMO I wouldn't think the PL designation would be likely candidates, but ya never know I guess. Add in these have been picked through and unless a very old collection came up, I'm sure many others through the years have had this same idea. But It doesn't hurt to try.

Happy hunting.!!!!

Stuart

Here's another example of an 1878-CC which I purchased in a Gen-1 "rattler" within the past 2 years from Ellesmere...

Stuart

STMan: I totally agree with you that it seems PCGS DMPL desigantion standards have actually tightened up, at a time where most other grading standards have loosened up!

I have observed that more recently graded PCGS DMPL's (Blue Label with Barcode on front) tend to be higher quality with more consistently deeper mirrors than the previous series of slabs with barcode on back of label...

coingame2000

Stuart,

I've handled many DMPL dollars in PCGS 1st generation "rattler" holders -- a number of which were not really DMPL's in my opinion. It can go either way.

Mike

Conder101

The DMPL designation was not used on the first generation holder. Or at least no one here has been able to come up with an example, and the question has come up here a couple of times in the past. It is found on the PCGS 4 variety that was introduced in 1990, but I think somewhere I have a some information that they were not designated at the very beginning of the PCGS 4but may havestarted as late as Feb of 1992. (The PCGS 4 slab was produced from Jan 1990 to mid 1995 so there is no way to know for sure when it was first introduced unless it is in PCGS's records somewhere.)

Stuart

Thanks Conder and others for your contribution posts. This is getting interesting because we have some conflicting opinions.

As a result, I guess that this warrants further discussion and some more investigatory work.

stman

Here ya go!!!

Conder101

Thank You Stman, I see I was wrong. I will make corrections.

RotatedRainbows

Dang, and all this time I thought these rattlers (and this is a genuine rattler, has the sound to prove it) were the first generation PCGS holders.

segoja

Early on they did not use the DMPL designation. It was PL only, and that was slightly less than DMPL if I remeber correctly.

dizzlecc

I picked one up recently that is a lowly 1886 in 62 dmpl.

It's full dmpl but not a black and white. It might upgrade to a 63 but not worth cracking out.

BigAl

just saw this thread......did you not think pcgs slabbed dmpl's in rattlers?

I suppose you have your answer based on above posts, but can't believe you guys havn't seen any throughout the years......I remember someone on this board told me (basically called me an idiot) that the pcgs dmpl pop report was totally understated b/c of the vast amounts of dmps slabbed pl in first gen holders (huh????????????)....obviously he doesn't leave any room for crackouts.

As to when they began this practice, Ive heard Feb 1988---but take that with a grain.

Stuart

Thanks folks for the useful information and the photos of DMPL Morgans in Gen-1 Rattlers!

GAT

I have a old PCGS rattler PL 1885 Morgan.

Conder101

What I want to know is why no one came up with a first generation DMPL designated slab the last two times this subject came up, including the first time when we actively tried to locate early DMPL slabs and the earliest we could come up with was PCGS 4.

Thanks again folks for the new information.

Hadleydog

82-cc 65dmpl

lava

Of the few pls/dmpls left in first generation holders, I suspect they are in the hands of long time collectors who don't sell much. I'm guilty of that. I am going to try and list two on ebay. Happy hunting.