I need some help in evaluating this Morgan please

coinbuf

I just received this yesterday, as I was inspecting it I noticed what apear to hairlines all over the obv and rev. But as I looked closer I'm now thinking that these lines are die polish lines. I tried to get a good close-up with my microscope and it looks to me as if the lines extend all the way up to and beyond the lettering. But the lines do not cross over or on top of the lettering. Does anyone know if the 1884-S was prone to having excess die polishing; oh and this coin has simi-proof like surfaces.

Thanks for any comments
Chris

BTW what grade do you give her??

nankraut

IMHO, it's been rather harshly cleaned? Grade? net au50

cohodk

Hard to tell from the pics, but I would say cleaned. I also cant see if there is any luster so I would give a grade of AU-55

coinbuf

That was my first thought also. Still on the fence as to keep or send back.

Chris

beartracks42

paigowjohnny

That isn't die polish. Can't tell if it's been cleaned from the picture, or if the lines are just from circ. Also, some breast rub.

AU-55

Dog97

I'd say lightly cleaned. The lines in the closeup stop short of actually touching the "U" whereas dp would run all the way up to the letters because the letters are incused in the die so polishing lines would run right across the letters & continue on.

coinbuf

Dog97 - That is just what I was thinking. My close up does'nt show it as well as I'd like but most of the lines do run right up to the lettereing and devices; continue on the other side again directly at the point where the lettering meets the field. I'm going to try another pic to see if I can get it to show better.

Ok, this first pic is just under the chin taken at 60X


This is a close-up of the same area at 200X. Notice that the lines do not seem to run thru the small hit.


Just wishfull thinking on my part??

Chris

clackamas

It has been harshly cleaned. I would not pay more than $40 for that coin.

Dog97

Good closeup. QX3?
It is not die polish lines.
Due to the new picts I'll change my opinion to maybe the typical hairline scratches associated with light circulation, i.e. being in a gritty pocket and maybe a slabbable coin as AU55-58.
Either way there's not much difference other than circulation scratches will show stronger in the center of the fields and lessen toward the design elements & go in different directions while cleaning scratches will be more uniforn and generally go in the same direction. Imagine holding the coin in your hand and rubbing a tissue back & forth on it with your thumb & you should get the idea.

Dog97

dp

coinbuf

Thanks to all who took a look and offered opinions. Special thanks to Dog97; I think you have it nailed and yes pics taken through QX3. I think she will grade AU55 myself, still not sure if I'll keep it or send it back(ebay) she would be a nice addition to my dansco.

Chris

K6AZ

That's too bad, appears to me to be a very high AU coin, but it's been cleaned.

K6AZ

<< <i>Good closeup. QX3?
It is not die polish lines.
Due to the new picts I'll change my opinion to maybe the typical hairline scratches associated with light circulation, i.e. being in a gritty pocket and maybe a slabbable coin as AU55-58.
Either way there's not much difference other than circulation scratches will show stronger in the center of the fields and lessen toward the design elements & go in different directions while cleaning scratches will be more uniforn and generally go in the same direction. Imagine holding the coin in your hand and rubbing a tissue back & forth on it with your thumb & you should get the idea. >>



I disagree Dog. While you will see some various hairlines on a lightly circulated coin, the harlines on this coin are very uniform in their depth, even if they appear to not all be going in the same direction. This coin has very little actual wear, and I suspect it would be a strong 55 and possibly a 58 without the hairlines. I would send this one to ANACS, as I'm pretty sure it would get a BB at PCGS.

coinbuf

What net grade do you think ANACS would give this one K6AZ?

Chris

K6AZ

That's a hard call since I don't have the coin to look at in person, but typically on a better date like this with a light cleaning that has since started to retone, I wouldn't be surprised with AU details net XF45. Of course, if ANACS agrees with Dog and doesn't call the cleaning, you are looking at a minimum AU55 for this coin.

coinbuf

Thanks K6AZ, that is just what I was thinking.

Chris

Dog97

K6AZ-
I really can't say 100% for certian one way or the other from the pictures.
But it's a raw key date from sleazeBay-what does that tell you?

K6AZ

Not much Dog. With all the fraud and misrepresentation on eBay these days, some coins can be had for a song. This one is a hard call, and is well worth a gamble sending to ANACS.

stman

Here comes the other grump, this one is a tough call. Both Dog and K6AZ make good points. Just looking at the first image in the thread makes me think cleaning without even looking at the close-ups. Definitely not die-polish IMO.

Now looking at the close ups, There does appear to be a ton of those fine hairlines... but this is at 60X and 200X.

I've noticed Dog will usually give the benefit of doubt with light hairlines and sometimes call it circulation. But he's TOUGH on marks.
I've also noticed K6AZ will sometimes let a few marks go, but will be tougher on hairlines and such.

I say all this as just an observation, and I think it's good for knowledgeable people to disagree sometimes.

Myself? I think it could go either way. If those hairlines aren't that noticeable until under strong magnification.... they might grade it.

If it has the look in person of a cleaned and re-toning coin (like the first pic) I'd say it would no grade.

Edit to get the magnification numbers correct.

coinbuf

Actually stman as a collective you all three are correct. One bad thing about this coin is that is does have PL fields so the lines standout more. This seller does have a ten day return policy so I'm only out the postage if I return it which is the way I'm leaning.

I think the coin is a combination of some lite circulation marks along with a lite cleaning, and while my pics don't show it well enough there are some die polish lines too. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and coments.

Chris

K6AZ

Let's try another angle Chris, how much do you have in this coin?

BigAl

I would not pay more than $40 for that coin.
what?


I like the look of this coin, so I'll take the high road.....AU 55; As long as there's no rim damage below the date.