Fantastic auctions on Ebay

gaspipe26 · October 5, 2004 12:16AM

There is an ebay seller right now who is auctioning some fantastic unopened material, cut card cases and original coin rolls. I would request everyones opinion on the validity of these auctions as he received 2 negatives shortly after the auctions ended. Is it from buyers remorse or what? I look forward to your opinions. The sellers ID is paoutdoorsman2004

carew4me · October 5, 2004 12:27AM

already discussed here

edited to add: To 2 recent Negs are from 2 morons who cant read a simple description.

The seller obviously has the items, the estate is huge, and buyers should ALWAYS be aware.

PSA Pop reports BEWARE!

I was going to start 1956 Topps FB set, but when 1 auction alone has 55 Joe Perry's, I think I will wait.

mickeys · October 5, 2004 12:54AM

Both the negatives are buyers saying they don't want to send a check/mo.

It takes work to set up a Business Paypal account and even more so to take credit cards - not to mention the fees. I'm not sure I understand the logic that a seller who has neither is automatically a scam. Seems like these buyers just didn't read the descriptions, evaluate the risk, etc.

Look forward to hearing real feedback - from the first of us who actually wins and gets something.

Mick

gaspipe26 · October 5, 2004 12:59AM

Mickey, I agree. I dont think I would call them morons like carew, but something must of alerted them. Thats why I posed the question on the valitity. One of the buyers has over 5000 positive feedbacks. Why would he jump the gun and leave a negative?

carew4me · October 5, 2004 1:11AM

GP,
Morons may have been a bit harsh, but when it says "I do not accept Iraqi dinars" and the buyers Neg states" "WOULD NOT ACCEPT MY IRAQI DINARS!"

I am not sure what label you would put on it...

gaspipe26 · October 5, 2004 1:17AM

I dont get your point? Well I won 3 hockey packs, we will see.

carew4me · October 5, 2004 1:25AM

Believe me, I am working on a very small percentage, thus I do not accept paypal or credit cards. I do accept personal checks, money orders, cashiers checks.

NEGS: seller will not deliver cod,cash paypal nothing-just wants me to send $ TO PO BO Buyer billgatesiwas ( 0 ) Oct-05-04 07:33 5127296849
DUH!

NEGS:BEWARE !!! Seller does NOT take paypal,cash etc ..only chk/MO to a PO BOX scam Buyer collectingconcepts ( 5425) Oct-05-04 07:29 5127278833
DOUBLE DUH!

My Iraqi Dinar example was an attempt at humour.

Good luck on the Hockey.

maxXposure · October 5, 2004 1:54AM

<< I dont think I would call them morons like carew, >>

i would..

gemint · October 5, 2004 2:04AM

Bob,

Let us know what you think of the hockey. I didn't like the looks of the vintage cellos, but who knows, they could be miswraps.

carew4me · October 5, 2004 2:41AM

Here is a response from one of the Neg bidders:

My email to him stated that I too was interested in some items. I said that it seemed clear what forms of payment
the seller accepted."

Response:
That is true, but this guy has way too much stuff not take some type of secured payment. We offered to pay all fees associated with picking up merchandise, paying with credit card, attorney's fees, etc. and he refuses. What could the logic be behind not accepting a cash payment in person instead of a check? What sense does that make? It seems more and more that this guy is a scammer...

What could the logic be behind not accepting a cash payment in person instead of a check? I would think that in the liquidation of an estate,
with an attorny etc, that payment could be "cash". It would have to be in some form of trackable tender. Seller also states that
CC and Paypal would erode histake which makes sense to me. Also, while Paypal is convenient to the buyer, the seller takes soem noteable risks,
due to Paypals lackluster protection policies.

mickeys · October 5, 2004 3:00AM

If you think about it, it's very reasonable for someone who is not in the business - who obvioulsy has no idea to value what they have - to list everything on ebay and basically say 'that's the fair market' rather than encourage the Mr. Mints of the world to show up with a suitcase full of cash and "back up the truck."

You can almost guarantee they are not trying to squeeze every penny on this since by flooding the market, they will get less and less on each piece as the previous piece sells. Also, the ebay descriptions are clearly not 'optimized' to attact top dollar.

If I drop dead tomorrow I would hope my wife would do the exact same thing, albeit with a better scanner and more accurate descriptions.

Mick

carew4me · October 5, 2004 3:07AM

Mick,
I noticed you going after some of these lots. Let us know what you think.

Buccaneer · October 5, 2004 3:19AM

This is the forst I have heard of these auctions and I find the discussions interesting. Does it, in some way, validates the claim that there are still hordes of ungraded/unopened cards out there?

calleocho · October 5, 2004 3:45AM

what the coin guys are thinking

radiationguy · October 5, 2004 5:08AM

I might be naive, but if this is a scam then someone has taken hours upon hours to scan, type up thousands of descriptions, break into the Topps vault to take pictures of all their old products, and also broke into the US mint while he was at it. If this is a scam it would go down as one of the most elaborate scams ever on Ebay. I quess everyone is looking for a sign that this is the real deal. As for payment, when I first started selling on Ebay I did not take Paypal or credit cards for over 300 items. I guess we will play the waiting game.

Mickey, please tell us how the transaction went so you can put everyones nerves to rest or you take one for the team.

Billy

mickeys · October 5, 2004 5:16AM

If I win something you can be sure I will. I'm hoping some others will too. I also think its odd that if you were trying to get $$ and run, that you would start a series of auctions selling the same thing over and over which basically guarantees that by the time the later auctions are to finish, the plot will have been exposed. If you have 15 vending cases of 84 Topps Football, why not make that one lot, take what you can get and run. Why stretch it out? Another clue that it may be a legit (albeit clueless) seller - why have 20+ listings of 1970s Non Sports junk cases. I will admit if this is a fraud that certainly added a bit of authenticity. You can just picture this guy taking down all of Topps overruns whether it be 1978 Baseball sealed rack cases or 1978 Grease.

I'm holding off future bids until someone has definative answer but I will honor my existing bids and try and turn around payment so I will have some feedback sooner rather than later for the outstanding and upcoming lots.

Mick

packCollector · October 5, 2004 5:27AM

I have no doubt the 75 and up stuff is legit . where do you get all those pictures of all those cut cases labeled as all sports and junk non sports.

mick , what do you think of all the cello and wax pre 75? doesn't it look suspicious (saying it nicely) ? I don't think he bought that stuff direct and obviously had a bad source. if those cellos are legit , i will never buy another pack again in my life. then there is stuff like the 51 redbacks which are most likely legit. i still don't know on the 71's but I am not going to spend 10k+(if there is a market discount for uncertainty) on that 71 basketball box to find out.

mickeys · October 5, 2004 6:13AM

I would guess the 59 Topps FB cellos are real because they've been around in that form now for 10 years or more. Ditto the 71 FB wax packs. The Fifties and Sixties cellos look to me *simply from the scans* to be rewraps - I cant recall seeing 57 or 58 cellos in any quantity over the past dozen or so years.

The last few cellos we bought - 67 Topps Series Five, 68 Topps Series Three and 66 Topps Mixed Series were ALL rewraps with junk cards inside. I think this was very prevelant in the mid-80s out of NY/NJ/PA area. We bought a complete box of 36 1966 cellos for $10k which were all bad from a guy in Jersey or PA. I think you saw cellos from the same source from 1966 a few Mastro auctions back when they pulled the lot in mid-auction.

Given the nature of the beast here, I'd say the seller may believe they are legit but it would be a major crapshot to plunk down serious $$ to find out.

I would guess the 71 Bsktball was is probably good - some of that has been around more. Ditto the 75 mini wax.

All in all, this whole thing will be very interesting to see how it turns out.

Mick

calleocho · October 5, 2004 6:14AM

I am on the fence right now...

if you want money quick and free from effort and hassle , call Mr Mint

if you want to maximaze return then sell slowly on the ebay, take paypal , credit cards arrange meeting , the whole deal.

the sale is unusual to say the least

defenitly not for the weak of heart.!

good luck to the winner, you will either make out like a bandit ..or be taken by one

Ocean 11 anyone?

mickeys · October 5, 2004 7:39AM

He just got suspended by ebay - I got some notices cancelling my bids. I'm assuming it was a 3rd negative - given the first two were just jerks I wonder where this stands for the earlier buyers.

Mick

Please be advised that the following auction:

3843650617 - 1980 Star Wars Empire Strikes Back Vending Case

was ended early by eBay. The auction was ended due to the account suspension of the seller. All results for this auction are null and void.

Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
eBay Inc

packCollector · October 5, 2004 8:29AM

I may be wrong but I kind of feel for the guy. He gets 3 negs the day after the auctions end complaining about terms that are clearly stated. So he has a po box and does not take paypal, does that mean it's a scam, everything is a potential scam but I have sent plenty of payments to po boxes in the past and received my cards.

maxXposure · October 5, 2004 8:48AM

<< I may be wrong but I kind of feel for the guy. He gets 3 negs the day after the auctions end complaining about terms that are clearly stated. So he has a po box and does not take paypal, does that mean it's a scam, everything is a potential scam but I have sent plenty of payments to po boxes in the past and received my cards. >>

likewise..

jayhawke · October 5, 2004 8:51AM

Looks like ebay pulled his account. He is no longer a registered member.

mickeys · October 5, 2004 8:52AM

Those two buyers should be suspended - imho

MIck

maxXposure · October 5, 2004 8:55AM

<< Those two buyers should be suspended - imho

MIck >>

i agree 100%.. carew4me said it best when he called them morons..

packCollector · October 5, 2004 9:05AM

mick , there was actually a 3rd that came in a little later which I think is what caused the suspention. I would be pretty pi$$ed if this is all that it was that caused the suspention

pc · October 5, 2004 9:23AM

the negatives wouldnt get the seller suspended since
3 negatives are meaningless to a seller with 346 positives.
i rhink the odds favor ebay having saved some here $$$.

jmpkcp · October 5, 2004 9:24AM

Suspended? Far worse should be done to these illiterate hooligans. Explicit payment instructions apparently aren't enough. The treatment of paoutdoorsman2004 was entirely unfair. But it will probably benefit the good Doctor's estate as once these items are verified properly, they could be worth much more (though many cases were obviously searched.) I believe the folks who left negs should be forced to visit Dr. Zimmerman's grave and apologize in person. How humbling would that be?

jmpkcp

p.s. I did some reaserch and can say with 99.99% certainty that the estate sale of Dr. Zimmerman was completely legitimate. Only 2 things in life are 100% certain.....1956 Topps baseball set, best ever made.....and Cobra Commander's voice is the worst cartoon voice in the history of television.

p.p.s. Pack collector, did you get the cards and the prize you won for guessing the Mays auction?

OhioTaz · October 5, 2004 9:38AM

Seems odd that a seller would be suspended for negative feedback. Several other Bulletin Boards have reached the opposite conclusion. That is, that EBay pulled it because it appeared fraudulent. It will be interesting to see if we ever get more information. I have no idea if he is for real or not. I always assume the worst in EBay transactions until a seller proves himself to be legit (e.g. a good rep on these boards, small purchases by myself that went smoothly, positive feedback from people who have done business with me in the past).

I tried finding any evidence of a Dr. H. O. Zimmerman and cannot. I would be interested to know what research makes jmpkcp 99+% sure this is legit. Not arguing here as I have presented all the flimsy evidence to the contrary that I have. Just curious. I would state that economies and transactions can occur because of trust. There are things that can be done to build trust. Those were not done by this seller. On the other hand if we knew these were legit, I think many of us would help him realize higher prices.

It would be my sincere hope that if this is legit, he resubmit the auctions with reasonable safeguards for the bidders. If it is not legit, I am glad that I did not bid.

Greg

jmpkcp · October 5, 2004 9:38AM

I called the county recorder's office and ask for some public info. Asked who was handling the estate, etc. Made some calls. Checked out as far as I'm concerned.

jmpkcp

packCollector · October 5, 2004 9:39AM

Joe , yes , been very busy with the inlaws visiting. thank you!!!!!!!!!

1 thing for people to consider, what scammer will not end auctions early and will not take transactions offline?

maybe he was a really good scammer but there were many things poing to this being legit. some of the items may have been bad but the listings were most likely legit imo

pc · October 5, 2004 9:44AM

<< I called the county recorder's office and ask for some public info. Asked who was handling the estate, etc. Made some calls. Checked out as far as I'm concerned.

jmpkcp >>

very funny.the county recorder was there at 8 pm just to take your call.

OhioTaz · October 5, 2004 9:45AM

That is good work. Do you recall the county? I did an AMA search for a physician by that name in Penn and found nothing. It did find several docs that I know have been dead for a decade but I have no idea how complete it is. You can narrow the search if you know the county.

Greg

mickeys · October 5, 2004 11:11AM

If you get 3 feedbacks within a certain period you are automatically suspended. Those spammer buyers should be ashamed of that idiotic feedback - based on nothing but their own ignorance. If they - or anyone - had actually gotten some of the purchased material then fine, bang him for non-delivery, bang him for misrepresented items, bang him for over grading, etc. This is the first time I've seen someone left one negative for not accepting paypal and a second one for using a PO box.

I half hope we all read in SCD that this was the biggest ebay scam ever - i doubt it though. Scammers don't sell their auctions spread out over a period of weeks. They don't sell junk cases like Bionic Woman. And they generally are "too" clever when it comes to the descriptions. As I said earlier, why spread the auctions out over several weeks when the "scam" would be certain to already be discovered. To me, it is obvious that this was legit.

This seller was just clueless- probably just as it seemed, a guy dies and the family says to a family friend 'hey you know how ebay works, why don't you sell our uncles stuff.' Doesn't mean it wasn't all overgraded. Doesn't mean that the desccriptions weren't accurate or that the vending wasn't looked through to verify value. Doesn't mean the guy didn't buy every rewrapped cello that came down the pike. Some people who don't get all this make honest, stupid assessments of things and this seems very consistent to me of how they would behave.

It's a shame that there are so many ebay scammers that everyone needs to become so skeptical about everyone. I feel very bad for this seller and the relatives of this estate and I half hope I am wrong because it's a shame that all this effort went down the drain.

Mick

Buccaneer · October 5, 2004 11:12AM

This is all very fascinating.

Mick, I know it was a calculated risk but I'm sort of glad it didn't go through.

Mantlefan · October 5, 2004 1:10PM

Just got this email from EBAY as I was writing my check:

The following is a courtesy notice from eBay Trust & Safety regarding:

User ID - paoutdoorsman2004

Our records show that you were a bidder or buyer of one or more of this seller's items. We recently removed all of this seller's active listings and have suspended the seller's trading privileges. Due to privacy concerns we will not be able to share further details related to this seller.

If someone claiming to be the seller asks you to complete a transaction outside of eBay, we strongly recommend that you ignore the request. Transactions for items listed on eBay that are completed outside of the eBay marketplace are not covered by the Buyer Protection services offered by eBay and can be highly indicative of fraud.

If you have not sent payment to the seller, we urge you to not proceed until you are completely confident that the transaction will be completed safely.

Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)

pc · October 5, 2004 1:36PM

that last sentence is the key-
those that haven't paid saved money.

mickeys · October 5, 2004 3:02PM

>>>If you have not sent payment to the seller, we urge you to not proceed until you are completely confident that the transaction will be completed safely. <<<

Note that ebay says - "until YOU are completely confident" not "until WE determine the legitimacy of these auctions."

I had an auction highjacked one time by a guy in Australia who stole my image and they wouldn't get involved. The claimed they couldn't determine who had the legitimate listing even though I had the card in my hand and 10,000 feedbacks and the Aussie had 0. Their investigation or determination on something like this is Zero. Nothing. They simply pulled the guy because he got three BS feedbacks.

My advice to Frank would be to wait until the guy contacts you - no harm in waiting - but I wouldn't take anything in ebay canned comments as material since I no from experience they are toothless in these matters.

M

gaspipe26 · October 5, 2004 4:04PM

Mantlefan,
I got a similar email.

packCollector · October 5, 2004 9:08PM

everyone got that email even if you didn't win anything. if you bid, you got the email. I would just wait. I think this is bull but we'll see. ebay probably received a bunch of emails questioning the validity of the auctions , the guy also got 3 unwarrented negs the day after the auctions ended, they then saw he had 3000 listing in a week when he had 300 feedback and ebay pulled the plug. there isn't anything I have heard so far that this was a scam that would cause me to forgot about it completely.

I once had an auction removed for an item where ebay said the grading co was on a banned list, funny thing is I bought the pack on ebay a month before! they have there heads so far up their a$$es that it is impossible to conclude anything by their actions

carew4me · October 5, 2004 9:51PM

Anyone have paoutdoorsman2004 email? I would be glad to offer my services!

pc · October 9, 2004 2:42AM

<< Anyone have paoutdoorsman2004 email? I would be glad to offer my services! >>

are you a blood sucking ambulance chasing attorney or just another lowlife?

jsnpritchett · October 9, 2004 3:26AM

<< Anyone have paoutdoorsman2004 email? I would be glad to offer my services! >>

His name is apparently Randy, and his e-mail address is paoutdoorsman2004@yahoo.com . I looked through some old e-mails, and found a couple regarding a card I won from him in July.

Jason

Fantastic auctions on Ebay

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