Attention Error Collectors And Anyone Else That Wants To See A Cool Looking WA Quarter

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I got this in change today and would like your opinions. It appears to be struck entirely on copper sans the nickel layer.



I has very pretty toning which does not show up very well in these images.

indianabyron

Ummm it looks more likely to have been diped in something that left a micro layer of copper of some copper color on it. I dont think its very likley that the nickle layer is missing. Sorry this is just my opnion.

But still the color is nice.


Byron

Betta285

Although the color is very nice..a way of determining if it really does have a clad layer might be to dip part of it to better see the rim.

jim

tsacch

couldnt you weigh it ?

Conder101

Find someone with a metal detector and compare the sound it makes to that to a regular quarter. Copper and nickel will distort the magnetic lines of the field coil differently and produce a different sound fom the detector. (Different electromagnetic signaures of copper and coppernickel clad pieces of the same size and weight.)

TonedCoinTrader

Neato

WWW

It sure looks like it's struck on copper. Has anyone out there heard of this type of error before? A different lighting scheme:

coinlieutenant

cool....

coinguy89

I have a Washington that looks just like that, the color is only alittle different. But I think mines AT, I too found it in circulation.

66Tbird

yep it happens,,, BTW it looks good and red,

Conder101

<< <i>couldnt you weigh it ? >>


Weighing it would only work if the clad layers fell away after it was blanked and before striking (Has to be before striking because the impresions on the coin in question are too sharp for the clad layers to be lost after striking.) But in that case the coin wuld have been significatly thinner than normal which would be readily visible plus the coin woud suffer from a weak strike, this coin doesn't.

There are two ways a full weight, copper appearing coin like this could come from the mint. The first, and most likely, is from copper sinctering in the annealing ovens. If a batch of quarter planchets are annealed after a batch of cent planchets, the copper dust left behind from the cents can be fused to the surfaces of the quarters resulting in a copper wash like that seen on tbird's coin. The problem is this kind of copper wash is very easily faked after the coin leaves the mint by either a quick flash plating of copper or I believe a brief soak in a copper sulfate solution will also work.

The second way results from an error with the coinage strip. When the clad ingot is rolled to the proper thickness, at the ends the outer nickel layers tends to end before the center copper layer so you have a short section of pure copper of the proper thickness before it tapers down to nothing. Now this end of strip area is supposed to be trimmed away before it is sent to the blanking press. If it isn't or if it is mproperly trimmed, it is possible to get a few blanks punched from this pure copper area. Since these are the proper size and weight it is possible for them to easily go through all the minting steps with the rest of the normal blanks. They would only be pulled if they are seen visually.

Since copper and nickel are almost the same density the copper coin would have the same weight and specific gravity as a normal quarter. A copper quarter would be more electrically conductive, but it would take some very sensitive equipment to tell the difference. Copper and nickel have vastly different capacities for accomodating lines of magnetic flux. Copper is fairly moderate while nickel is very high. This is why they distort the lines of the field coil of a metal detector differently. That change in the field changes the inductance of the coil and the frequency of the oscilator of the tuned circuit in the detactor. Different distortions results in different frequencies.

kieferscoins

Whats up with the mintmark? Is that a die break?

Cameron Kiefer

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Thank you all for your opinions. I think Condor101 has the best solution for determining whether or not
this oddity is real or fake. The only other idea I had was to get it x-rayed, but that's rather extreme as I
don't currently have ready access to such a device. I'll go to the local coin shop that sells metal detectors
and see if Condor101's theory holds. I'll need a copper test piece of similar size. Any suggestions?
Oh yeah...the mint mark had a bit of fuzz on it when I first imaged it.

LALASD4

Look like someone torch it.

WWW

Following Conder101's advice, I took this coin to a coin shop that also sells metal detectors.
I used a discriminator model to test this coin. It detected it as a cent. Same thing on two
other models. The coin shop employees said it was impossible since this coin weighed
exactly what a regular quarter should weigh. But they could not explain why a $500
metal detector consistently identified the coin as a cent.

FC57Coins

Looks like you have yourself another winner Bill!

HTubbs

Very nice toning!
It does happen I have a similar error

lordmarcovan

The metal detector test, while a good idea, is not 100% foolproof, as target ID meters are notoriously touchy. I've had plenty of cents read as dimes, half dollars read as quarters, and so on, in air tests like the one you performed. But it is intriguing.

From your pictures, I would have sided with indianabyron's opinion that it somehow got discolored, but you have it in hand and could judge that better than we could. I would also expect a coin missing both outer clad layers to be a little thinner, somehow?

earlwbollinger

Although it's possible it is the real error thing.
I tend to be suspicious myself.
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/copper.htm
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Department&ID=98

I think someone was experimenting with a copper plating system, maybe for chroming something, and that quarter was
as reject.
A lot of schools were plating pennies as science projects, so why not quarters too?

bigtonydallas

Send it to C.O.N.E.C.A. to be attributed for $5. $3 if you are a member.

FredWeinberg

If I can add my two cents worth - based on the scan, the coin
is not a "copper wash" example, and with the weight being the
same for a normal quarter, I'd say it's been copper-plated in some
way. "Copper Wash" surfaces have a completely differerent look
to them - an "original luster" look that this coin does not have.........

Fred Weinberg

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While I suspect this coin to be tampered with, (since it's too good to be true) I do wonder why it weighs exactly (to 3 decimal points) the same as a quarter. Wouldn't it weigh heavier? I have tried scratching off a small portion (of the plating?) on the reeded edge of the coin and all I see is copper underneath. Additionally, three different metal detectors (different brands no less) all indicating it to be copper also baffles me (not that hard to do). Regardless, I really do appreciate everyone's contribution to my post and once again I thank you all for helping me try to solve a numismatic question. In the meantime, I think I'll just tuck the coin away and bring it to a show and get some opinions on it then.

FredWeinberg

Because of the tolerance of the weight of planchets,
it's very possible to be copper plated, and yet show
the "proper" weight on a scale......I've seen this
many many times before.......

Think about it - if it was solid copper, it couldn't weigh
the exact same weight as a clad composition quarter.

It would be heavier, I believe............

Fred

Conder101

<< <i>Think about it - if it was solid copper, it couldn't weigh
the exact same weight as a clad composition quarter. >>


The specific gravity (density) of coppernickel clad and pure copper are the same to two decimal places (8.92) so a copper planchet the same size as a coppernickel planchet would both weigh the same.

errormaven

Another possibility is a counterfeit struck in copper or a soft copper alloy. I have come across a number of very scary counterfeits of this sort. Most are marked by the counterfeiter with an engraved number, letter, or abstract symbol. Some are not. They have fooled some of the best. I don't know what method is being used, but it's not any of the more familiar ones. I have three in my collection that are frighteningly convincing. Fred Weinberg sent me one some years back.

Dog97

On the rev I clearly see silver color on the eagle. Look at the edge shot and you can clearly see a line where the clad & copper meet.
Looks like what ametal detector dug up from under pinestraw or somebody AT'ed it.

errormaven

I see what appear to be silver-colored spots on the ear and nearby. I don't see a clear boundary between copper core and clad layer on the edge. All I see is a faint, dark streak, which is not convincing evidence of anything. However, a discolored, stained, or plated specimen is a distinct possibility. I was simply introducing another possibility.

Dog97

I may be "reeding " too much from the edge picture but I think I see the right side of the edge having some silver color while the left side is all copper color with the dividing line being in the center 3rd of the picture.

Baley

wierd coin. I'll bid $0.24