Venezuela Topps - How lenient you think PSA will be on this card?

A761506 · October 2, 2004 12:12PM

When I received this card, I figured for sure it had to have been trimmed. I immediately measured it, amazingly it is correct size. It's being submitted for sure... I know the highest grade every given to a Venezuelan from every year they produced the set is an 8, and there are exactly 3 of them with that grade. Now, the question is, any chance they would give this one a 9 even though it wouldn't normally meet 9 standards because of extremely slight corner wear, but because of the general nature of Venezuelans and how difficult they are in nice shape?

stevek · October 2, 2004 12:59PM

Zero chance for a 9. Almost zero chance for an 8. Probably a 7, but not sure how the particular grader is going to react to the discoloration, even though this discoloration is not uncommon with 1966 Topps baseball. The grade could go lower.

ldferg · October 2, 2004 1:13PM

..it wouldn't normally meet 9 standards ..

i think you've really answered your own question...imo

CADILLACN97 · October 2, 2004 1:13PM

A quick question, as i am unfamiliar with this issue. How do you tell the difference between a Venezuelan and a regular Topps issue. I have seen a lot of 'hype' about these lately, and just curious what is the story with them? And how can you tell the difference? They look like a regular Topps card to me, but i have never held one or seen one in person, so i don't know. Thanx in advance.
E

Stone193 · October 2, 2004 1:17PM

A76
This is one of the nicest 66T V's I have seen. There are some collectors of the set who can give their take on the card/set. My statement is more on the theory of grading. And, altho it appears that the particular item is taken into consideration, grading should not ever be on a curve. An 8 is an 8 irregardless of the issue. Having said that, some believe PSA may be a bit more lenient on some issues.
Really nice card - looks like a 7 if there is no wrinkling or surface damage that can't be seen on the scan. The set was commonly pasted into albums in south america which may be seen in america but much less common.
And, that issue was printed on darker cardboard stock than the american version and for those who may not know, the set also lacks the gloss typical of the american counterpart.
Thanx for showing it!
your friend
Mike

CON40 · October 2, 2004 1:18PM

I think that card will have an outside shot an an 8, but looks more like it'll grade a 7... I have a beautiful Don Mossi from this set that graded a 5, yet looks NM to the eye which tells me PSA is just as critical of these as they would be on a regular Topps issue.

That said, I still think you should submit and shoot for a 7, you may be pleasantly surprised!

Stone193 · October 2, 2004 1:20PM

<< <i>How do you tell the difference between a Venezuelan and a regular Topps issue. >>

E
I was posting at the same time you were. Check my post on my take on the issue.
your friend
Mike

Stone193 · October 2, 2004 1:23PM

<< <i>I have a beautiful Don Mossi from this set that graded a 5, yet looks NM to the eye which tells me PSA is just as critical of these as they would be on a regular Topps issue. >>

Keith
Great card and a favorite of mine! The biggest ears in the business. Looks like a 7 to me?
thanx for sharing
your friend
Mike

A761506 · October 2, 2004 1:43PM

You can differentiate the 66 Venezuelan's from a picture only by the color of the back. It's a much deeper pink than the regular Topps issues.

You guys are tough... I've seen plenty of Venezuelans and never before seen one this nice. Someone mentioned discoloration, and from all the VZ's from the 1966 set I've seen, I believe what looks like discoloration to be the natural color of the cardstock. The cardstock is much thinner than the US set, there is no surface gloss on these cards, which is why most have staining that could have easily been left just from fingerprints from handling.

If it was a US issue card and the perceived discoloration wasn't factored in, I am nearly certain it would grade an 8. The corners under 10x have only the slightest wear. The card has no surface wrinkles, creases, stains, print defects on the front, paperloss or glue on the back, and it's centered nearly perfect. Thanks for the input though. Glad some of you guys aren't grading it, no offense

BTW, the Mossi looks extremely nice for a 5, especially compared to this Frank Robinson.

Stone193 · October 2, 2004 2:25PM

A76
I agree with your position - it is hard to grade a card from a scan and as I said - it is the nicest one I have seen except in high end auctions - as you stated the stock is darker to start with and will not factor in your grade. If you say the corners look strong then I agree, you have an 8 - but remember, you could get the grader from hell?LOL Also, the centering is great! Also, don't see many like that.
Good luck and keep us posted.
your friend
MIke

stevek · October 2, 2004 2:45PM

Regarding comments on discoloration - look at the scan of the Frank Robinson card versus the poster's card. The borders on the Frank Robinson card are whiter where there is not any staining. That is more in tune to the card's original color. Will be interesting to see the grading results. Good luck - I hope it gets an 8 for you, but don't expect it.

CADILLACN97 · October 2, 2004 2:47PM

So there are no 'real' identifying marks. They were printed on darker, thinner cardstock, with no gloss (or shine) to the card. Were they just distributed in Venezuela, and made their way back to the US, kinda like the Desert Shield cards? What's the story? My interest was peaked recently when i came across a 66 Frank Robinson on the bay, and i wondered why it went for so much as compared to a regular Topps issue.
Thanx MIKE and A76 for the info so far!

This was the card i saw, i thought the price was a little high, and the reserve still wasn't met.
Robinson Ven

Stone193 · October 2, 2004 3:14PM

<< <i>What's the story? >>

Cad
I'm by far no expert on the sets but they were discussed recently. Topps began marketing the sets in Ven. in 1959; the backs of some of the 59T V's carry the credit line: "Impreso en Ven. por Benco C.A."
You see many low grade condition cards since down there it was more common to glue the cards into albums and scrapbooks. They were produced in even numbered years except for 1967 and ended production in 1968. Each year may have some small characteristic that is different from the american version like the back being printed almost totally in spanish in 1962.
Notice the back of the Robinson card - has more toning that the front - this is the natural color of the stock most likely and some printings may be similar on the front and back - just a theory?

Steve
I agree with your comment on how much 'toning' a card will have - but I would not be surprised if there were variations in the original stock colors also - that would take someone who handles loads of these cards to answer.
Thanx
your friend
Mike

dbj77 · October 3, 2004 10:05AM

Don Mossi and the word beautiful shouldn't be used in the same sentence....ever...LOL

rbeaton · October 3, 2004 8:00PM

Robert

A761506 · November 8, 2004 10:18AM

So much for leniency... I don't know what an 8 would need to look like for a Venezuelan, but I've never seen nicer ones than these (except for the 66 Frank Robinson that BMW had in an SGC holder - it almost looked too good).

mikeschmidt · November 8, 2004 10:47AM

Those are all awesome cards - congratulations. It probably wouldn't be "fair" if PSA used leniency with some issues rather than others. If you did that - you would end up with a tiered system - or, worse, a different grading company. The Geiger probably doesn't deserve more than a 7 because of the bottom two corners - and I find it so tough to properly judge condition on 1968 cards - I could only venture a guess. At the end of the day - those are some of the nicest Venezuelan Topps cards in existence. Congratulations on your submission - I think most of us would be proud to own such rarities.

67standup · November 8, 2004 12:05PM

<< <i>A quick question, as i am unfamiliar with this issue. How do you tell the difference between a Venezuelan and a regular Topps issue. I have seen a lot of 'hype' about these lately, and just curious what is the story with them? And how can you tell the difference? They look like a regular Topps card to me, but i have never held one or seen one in person, so i don't know. Thanx in advance.
E >>

To the author of the post: nice card, please let us know that grade given once received.

A little Venezuelan 101: How to distinguish them from Regular Topps cards:

1959 - Front: no gloss; back: "Impresso en Venezuela por Benco C.A."

1960 - Front: no gloss; back: same (some have "T.C.G."line, some don't)

1962 - Front: same; back: bio in Spanish

1964 - Front: no gloss; back: black border on white versus peach

1966 - Front: no gloss/darker; back: bright orange, has "T.C.G" line

1967 - Front: no border, smaller; back: horizontal bio/stats

1968 - Front: no gloss; back: "Hecho en Venezuela - C.A. Litovan"

CON40 · November 9, 2004 12:00AM

Congratulations on getting a PSA 7 on that Geiger. With the difficulty of these issues, you should regrad your PSA 7 as if it were a Topps equivalent of a PSA 9.

caracasboy · November 17, 2023 6:51AM

Hello all, surprised to see only posts from 2004 on the subject of Venezuelan Topps cards. I grew up in Venezuela and collected Topps cards since little. On moving to the US in the mid 1960s the only ones that survived are the ones from the 1962 season of which I have all except maybe 12 or 15, most in great condition though not PSA graded yet. I find that when I approach anyone that says they have these cards, and tell them that I have an almost complete set, they run away like scared. Why is that? Does anyone know if these cards are worth more as a set or individually? Thank you, I appreciate any comment on this topic.

jraytay · November 17, 2023 8:33AM

@Stone193 said:
<< I have a beautiful Don Mossi from this set that graded a 5, yet looks NM to the eye which tells me PSA is just as critical of these as they would be on a regular Topps issue. >>

Keith
Great card and a favorite of mine! The biggest ears in the business. Looks like a 7 to me?
thanx for sharing
your friend
Mike

Mossi and Don Sutton.....definitely MVE (most valuable ears) co-winners

jayhawke · November 17, 2023 11:43AM

@caracasboy said:
Hello all, surprised to see only posts from 2004 on the subject of Venezuelan Topps cards. I grew up in Venezuela and collected Topps cards since little. On moving to the US in the mid 1960s the only ones that survived are the ones from the 1962 season of which I have all except maybe 12 or 15, most in great condition though not PSA graded yet. I find that when I approach anyone that says they have these cards, and tell them that I have an almost complete set, they run away like scared. Why is that? Does anyone know if these cards are worth more as a set or individually? Thank you, I appreciate any comment on this topic.

The stars are worth more by themselves. It’s tough to sell a complete set. Not many people collect the set, they certainly collect the HOF’ers. Send me a message.

brad31 · November 17, 2023 12:13PM

The stars in high grade go for a lot. Check out the Heritage auction that ended yesterday. There were two Ernie Banks Venezuelans I went after and they went more than I was willing to go. They had a lot of Venezuelans that ended yesterday in their auction.