Will anyone ever hit .400 again?

Jersey · October 2, 2004 5:38AM

After seeing what Ichiro accomplished this year, I'm starting to wonder if it may be done.

WinPitcher · October 2, 2004 6:19AM

t gwynn in 94 was on his way. the strike ended that.

joestalin · October 2, 2004 7:00AM

on his way..I love it...a guy bats .400 for half the season or starts off hot and bats .410 through 30 games
and everyone talks "would this be the guy..." the last guy who even came close to this record was Brett back
in the 80's, guys today can't even bat .350 not to mention .400 like Williams did. Ichiro is hitting the ball
very well this year and isnt even within 25 points of .400

It will not be done again, Williams was once in a million.

JS

WinPitcher · October 2, 2004 10:08AM

stalin i know that you were prolly 13 that year BUT T Gwynn was at 394 when the season ended due to the strike. He was also going UP in average. Usually you have some facts when you post. This time you do not. You can look it up.

the padres played 117 games that season Tony played in 110.

had i mentioned olerud and o'niell then maybe your post would have been partially correct.

SDSportsFan · October 2, 2004 12:43PM

Steve D......

You are correct

Tony Gwynn hit .394 in 1994. Also, George Brett finished at .390 in 1980, and Rod Carew finished at .388 in 1977.

Steve (Also D by the way

)

joestalin · October 2, 2004 2:38PM

There is a BIG diff between playing 117 games and playing 169! heck you can't even say that Gwynn was
batting .400 because he wasn't! I have great respect for Gwynn, he was one of the best hitter in the
80's, but his best was .370 which isn't even close. shoulda woulda coulda...what if Williams played
ball instead of fighting for our country? 800 homers??

who knows, we don't have to worry because it won't happen again!

Thanks
Kevin

SDSportsFan · October 2, 2004 3:01PM

OK Kevin, here's a breakdown of (as far as I know) the three players who came closest to .400 since Williams got there, and Williams himself:

Williams 1941
G 143
AB 456
H 185
Ave .406

Carew 1977
G 155
AB 616
H 239
Ave .388

Brett 1980
G 117
AB 449
H 175
Ave .390

Gwynn 1994
G 110
AB 419
H 165
Ave .394

As the "other Steve D" said, Gwynn was increasing his average at the time of the strike. He is also the only one of the above group who's season was shortened. Brett played in only 117 games in 1980 due to injuries (including the infamous hemorrhoid flareup). No one will ever know for sure, but it is a good bet that Gwynn would have reached .400 by season's end, if the season had not been shortened due to the strike.

Steve

SDSportsFan · October 2, 2004 3:08PM

Also Kevin, you do have a point about all the "woulda, shoulda, coulda" games that we all enjoy playing.

If Williams hadn't lost seasons due to WWII and Korea, he was a good bet to break Ruth's HR record. Also, if Bob Feller hadn't joined the Navy and lost several seasons during WWII, he probably would've reached 3,000 Ks and 300 wins. And finally, if Dave Winfield hadn't lost the entire 1989 season and part of the 1990 season due to a back injury, he would be a member of the 500 HR club.

Steve

WinPitcher · October 2, 2004 3:12PM

Vargha · October 2, 2004 3:30PM

It will likely be done by someone whose season has near the minmal qualifying plate appearances. To have 700+ AB's like Ichiro does this season is an almost fatal blow to a .400 BA.

mintluster · October 3, 2004 10:00AM

Maybe Ichiro one day...but it's tough because he gets a TON of at-bats.......

mintluster · October 3, 2004 10:04AM

<< There is a BIG diff between playing 117 games and playing 169! heck you can't even say that Gwynn was
batting .400 because he wasn't! I have great respect for Gwynn, he was one of the best hitter in the
80's, but his best was .370 which isn't even close. shoulda woulda coulda...what if Williams played
ball instead of fighting for our country? 800 homers??

who knows, we don't have to worry because it won't happen again!

Thanks
Kevin >>

I gotta agree with JoeStalin.....Teddy ballgame is the most UNDERRATED baseball player ever. Considering his career numbers and achievements, and looking at all the lost time in HIS PRIME while fighting for our country (And he was no cook - he flew planes!!!!).......Williams numbers would be up there with Ruth and Aaron's if he had those seasons back......sure it's a "could of, would of" game but the fact is, it matters when comparing players.

WinPitcher · October 3, 2004 10:10AM

<Teddy ballgame is the most UNDERRATED baseball player ever>

lol

joestalin · October 3, 2004 10:59AM

We also remember that Williams was batting .400 going into the last day of the season, he already had
the record and the coach was going to bench him so he woudn't go below that...of course teddy ballgame
says Im playing and goes 6-8...do you think there is anyone playing in baseball that would do that today?

I don't

Ted Williams has a site, and while it is of course a bit biased, it tells a great a great story of that season and
makes a great argument why he should of gotten the mvp that year...can you believe he bats .406 and
doesn't win the MVP??

good topic, and yes I agree Williams is underrated, there just isn't even anyone close!

JS

WinPitcher · October 3, 2004 11:06AM

and yes I agree Williams is underrated

by whom?

this i gotta hear

SDSportsFan · October 3, 2004 12:14PM

Williams is widely considered the greatest hitter who ever lived and he's "underrated"?

Who do you think he was, God?

I'm a big Ted Williams fan (he and my dad went to the same high school), but I honestly don't see Williams as underrated!

Steve

joestalin · October 3, 2004 12:20PM

by anyone who never saw him play! Well granted I never saw him play but my dad has told me enough. You
just can't comprehend such a hitter by todays standards, there just aren't guys like him anymore. Everyone
says, Bonds this Bonds that, but even the cold hard stats support Williams as the better hitter and
perhaps if given the chance a better power hitter.

Im not even factoring in the drugs, the juiced balls, and the dinky ball parks!

Im not sure how old you are Steve, maybe you saw Williams play? Even if you didn't, going 4-10 the whole
season is just amazing. Ichiro, and all his hits, put it into persepective...he isn't even close to .400! Think
how dominating Ichiro would be today if he had 40 homers instead of 2.....Williams would of had both!

Even though he has cooled off a bit down the stretch, no one has mentioned Pujols....I think he has that
rare ablilty to hit for power AND average, heck he is already a .330 lifetime hitter and is averging over 40
homers a year....what if he has a Bondish year? Triple Crown perhaps......400????

I don't see anyone else today in the game who has a shot.

JS

murcerfan · October 3, 2004 1:12PM

put it into persepective...he isn't even close to .400!

Ichimo hit .429 the second half..........enough perspective?

joestalin · October 3, 2004 1:29PM

LOL..ok and the phils won the NL East pennant in the first half!

please stop with the weak comments, the last place a Yankee fan should be seen is on a thread talking about
.400 hitters!

Thanks
JS

80sToyguy · October 3, 2004 2:35PM

Pujols is incredible, but because he's still got Bonds in his league (NL), I'd say Vladdy has the best chance at a triple crown one year. As for hitting .400, I think you answered your own question--Ichiro has the best shot, but I agree he has to walk a bit more to have a chance. Too many bad ball swings.
Jay

phreakydancin · October 4, 2004 3:43AM

Bonds was only 15 hits shy of .400, and Ichiro 20 shy. That's a fair number, but I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that one of them could put together an even better season, especially if one of them is injured and goes on a tear in an abbreviated season. Hell, Ichiro had over 200 AB more than he needed to qualify (3.1 PA per game).

murcerfan · October 4, 2004 8:09AM

Itchito had 220 hits in his last 559 AB's.........which is .394

He also hit .405 this year away from Seattle, .410 on Astro Turf and .404 off lefties.

Only a fool would think it past his abilities (and some luck) to hit .400 for a season.

joestalin · October 4, 2004 10:31AM

LOL...well if he is hitting .406 in some random stat and his overall BA is .370 then that means he has
another stat where he is batting only .340...why ignore those stats? You can't bat .406 and then .340
somewhere else and expect to bat .400....the only time you hit .400 is when after the last day of the
season you look up and you have hit .400....not half way through the season, not at home or
on the turf, or against the O's, all around.

why show us all these stats when Ichiro isn't even close? .398 is close, .370 isn't

Bonds will never see that many pitches again in his life, the day he went on the juice and hit 73 is the
day that guys lost intrest in pitching to a cheater, especially when no one else on the team can hurt
you.

JS

WinPitcher · October 4, 2004 10:48AM

IS 394 CLOSE JOE?

murcerfan · October 4, 2004 11:01AM

Sometimes calling Joey a fool seems too generous

how many others hit even .370 on the road in 2004 ?
how many other hitters playing a full season topped .400 on the road, ever ?
how many closers did Williams face the season he hit .400 ?
how many times did he face a dead-armed starter for the 4th or 5th time in a game?
how many games out of contention was his "team" after the first month?

joestalin · October 4, 2004 12:00PM

Listen to a Yankeet fan try to make Ted Williams out to be a nodbody! It pains them that they greatest
hitter of all time played for the red sox. Don't even mention Ichiro and Williams in the same breath, one
is great and the other is young. I will bet money that Ichiro will NEVER put up the numbers that Williams
did, he will NEVER hit .400 and he will NEVER win the triple crown!

Your comments are just stupid, no one cares about what you hit on the road, after the sixth inning, against
right handers. .370 is not close, never was never will be

Come see me when someone can play 169 games and bat .400, until then there is no comparison!

Thanks
JS

WinPitcher · October 4, 2004 12:22PM

u have said 169 games twice now so it was not a typo the 1st time around. a mlb season is 162 games. not 169.

in 1962 the nl champ and runner up played 165, now a 1 game playoff determines it. the al always used the 1 game format.

169 games???

<Come see me when someone can play 169 games and bat .400, until then there is no comparison!>

impossible

joestalin · October 4, 2004 12:32PM

I meant a full season, whatever that may be...yes 162 and in some cases due to rain outs less, the point
is, its a full season.

Thanks for the correction.

JS

DirtyHarry · October 4, 2004 1:37PM

IMO - I think there is a misconception about some comments regarding Williams, that got some top spin for the sake of the joust. There are not many folks around that under-rate Ted Williams. He was the master of hitting as a science. Before his head was frozen for prosperity by his son...he always said that Tony Gwynn was the best hitter he had ever seen....and the most likely to hit .400.

Well, we know that didn't happen. Ichiro has proven that he can put an unreal amount of balls into the field of play for hits. Forget Bonds, walks, et al... I think Ichiro has the potential to do it. If his current team gets stronger, or if he gets traded to a better team, he may even see some better pitches to hit than he does now. Regards.

murcerfan · October 4, 2004 2:01PM

The resident genius doesn't know how many games are in a MLB season ?

too damn funny!

........yet he knows everything , especially what statistics make up greatness and which ones should be conveniently ignored (ie, Texas Ranger home hitting stats).

How did your boy Soriano's numbers stack up in the end?

You do make a good point that your Teddy was never able to even come close to .400 in any other season where he had 600 plate appearances.......not even an effort of .370

phreakydancin · October 4, 2004 2:57PM

<< I will bet money that Ichiro will NEVER put up the numbers that Williams did, he will NEVER hit .400 and he will NEVER win the triple crown! >>

And Williams never won a championship. What's your freakin' point? Why bring up the triple crown? Any idiot knows that Ichiro could never win the triple crown, any more than Gwynn could have. THEY'RE FREAKIN' SINGLES HITTERS! That's like saying Bonds will never win the Cy Young. Duh! Try reading the subject line of this thread.

<< Come see me when someone can play 169 games and bat .400, until then there is no comparison! >>

There's something Williams couldn't do either. I'm not even American and I know how many games there are in a baseball season.

joestalin · October 5, 2004 4:26AM

you see you just made my point! Only Ted Williams could win a batting title AND a home run title! He was
just as good of a hitter as Gwynn plus 500 and some homers! I know its hard to comprehend when you are
13 and all you know is Bonds, but check the stats!!!

Plus he came out and said that Mike Jordan couldn't hit a curve ball with a garbage can lid....you gotta like that!

JS

WinPitcher · October 5, 2004 4:48AM

Only Ted Williams could win a batting title AND a home run title!

wrong again joe, many have done just that, AND have even won the RBI title as well.

me thinks you need a refresher course in baseball history

can u name me 1 triple crown winner joe?

joestalin · October 5, 2004 5:47AM

Yaz was the last guy to do it back in the 60's, I think Frank Robinson and Mantle did it too. Williams
did it twice! Only Roger Hornsby did that.

so by my count, 4 guys have done it in the last 65 years and it has been almost 40 years since the last
guy did it. Are you still trying to make a case for todays ball player?

Was your point that if Mantle, Robinson and Yaz could do it then anyone could do it?

I think that argument failed! LOL

Next

JS

murcerfan · October 5, 2004 6:54AM

Triple Crown winners since 1900:
1901 Nap Lajoie, Athletics
1909 Ty Cobb, Tigers
1912 Heinie Zimmerman, Cubs
1922 Rogers Hornsby, Cards
1925 Rogers Hornsby, Cards
1933 Chuck Klein, Phillies
1933 Jimmie Foxx, Athletics
1934 Lou Gehrig, Yankees
1937 Joe Medwick, Cardinals
1942 Ted Williams, Red Sox
1947 Ted Williams, Red Sox
1956 Mickey Mantle, Yankees
1966 Frank Robinson, Orioles
1967 Carl Yastrzemski, Red Sox

phreakydancin · October 5, 2004 7:02AM

<< you see you just made my point! Only Ted Williams could win a batting title AND a home run title! >>

Again, you failed to read the subject of this thread. To refresh you, it says "Will anyone ever hit .400 again?" Typically, you try to confuse the issue as you always do with a bunch of meaningless statistical garbage - while at the same time ignoring the fact that your idol has exactly 0 championships to his name, despite your constant assertions in other threads that rings are all that matter... or does that only apply to football?

<< I know its hard to comprehend when you are 13... [blah, blah, blah] >>

I sincerely hope that wasn't directly at me.

mintluster · October 5, 2004 7:50AM

Baseball is a team game. It is not Teddy Ballgame's fault he never won a title. The man is one of the top 3 players of all-time. Period. The numbers and achievements speak for themselves.

joestalin · October 5, 2004 9:17AM

actually yes I was directing the 13 years old comment to you, because if you say Williams playing
you wouldn't be putting him in the same company as Ichiro.

oh, and you can add Ichiro and Bonds to the list of ringless.

JS

WinPitcher · October 5, 2004 9:54AM

Was your point that if Mantle, Robinson and Yaz could do it then anyone could do it?

NO it was not, I was simply
trying to ascertain your knowledge level in regards to MLB history. Your posts have shown me that level.

phreakydancin · October 5, 2004 11:47AM

<< actually yes I was directing the 13 years old comment to you, because if you say Williams playing you wouldn't be putting him in the same company as Ichiro. >>

"...if you say Williams playing"? What does that mean?

I've said nothing bad about Williams. I've not compared him to anyone. I absolutely agree he is one of the greatest hitters of all time. Or does it offend you for me to say that it is conceivable that Ichiro could be the next person to hit .400 (that's the topic of this thread, remember)?

<< oh, and you can add Ichiro and Bonds to the list of ringless. >>

Again, your point is...? This is a thread about hitting .400. Man, you're like a broken record.

joestalin · October 5, 2004 12:01PM

you were the one who went to the ring count, I said nothing about it until you did.

Ive answered the question in my first post...

Will anyone ever hit .400 again.....

no, no one who is playing now will.

and how can anyone talk about .400 not to mention hitting in general, and not mention Williams?

JS

phreakydancin · October 5, 2004 12:22PM

<< Ive answered the question in my first post... >>

...and then proceeded to post 11 more times, adding nothing to the topic but a bunch of meaningless statistical crap.

<< and how can anyone talk about .400 not to mention hitting in general...? >>

What does the triple crown have to do with hitting .400? Saying that Ichiro will never win the triple crown is about as stupid as saying there are 169 games in a season.

Gemmy10 · October 5, 2004 12:48PM

Yes, someday I think someone will hit .400 but it could be awhile. Just like the numbers of hits in a season stood for 84 years until Ichiro broke it.

joestalin · October 5, 2004 2:52PM

oh you expect Ichiro to win the home run crown anytime soon? Never

JS

WinPitcher · October 5, 2004 11:57PM

Joe your TWISTING (AGAIN)

fsjeter · October 6, 2004 1:16AM

Yes, it will happen. It may not happen in my lifetime but it will happen. Of the current active players, Ichiro and Pujols have the best chances (although Pujols HR totals may have to suffer to do it) IMO. Pujols has the best chance at the triple crown. Ted Williams is not now, nor will he ever be underrated. He is, without a doubt, one of the greatest hitters of all time but please do not confuse the ability to hit over .400 for a season with winning the triple crown. The two have only been achieved during the same season 4 times and not since 1925. In this category, Rogers Hornsby has no equal. His staggering average (1925-.403, 1922-.401) and HR (1925-39, 1922-42) numbers during his two triple crown seasons may never be accomplished again. BTW: Teddy Ballgame had 36 & 32 homers in his two triple crown seasons (1942 & 1947). Just my $0.02.

Scott

phreakydancin · October 6, 2004 4:51AM

<< oh you expect Ichiro to win the home run crown anytime soon? Never >>

You missed the point once again. To quote myself, "Any idiot knows that Ichiro could never win the triple crown", so why bring it up? It has nothing to do with hitting .400.

Will anyone ever hit .400 again?

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