Who would like to see a comparison and brief analysis of populations/prices for some major MS and Pr
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
For instance, PCGS has certified a total of 1488 MS65 Barber Dimes compared to 808 PF65 Barber Dimes.
An MS65 common date Barber Dime bids at $475 (as listed in the CDN) and a Proof 65 example bids at $1060.
Based upon the above figures, the price for a PR65 is 2.2 times the price of an MS65, yet Proofs are not twice as rare as business strikes, especially considering that many of the MS65 examples are better/scarcer dates and shouldn't even count in such a comparison of populations and prices.
There are a number of factors that can explain the relative prices vs. populations for these and other coin types and a discussion of them might prove to be interesting and informative. Of course, to be fair, it might not.
I did a website article on this subject a number of years ago and would be willing to do another one here, if enough forum members would have interest in seeing it.
Please raise your hand if you like the idea and if enough respondents vote yes, I will have something done in the next week or so.
An MS65 common date Barber Dime bids at $475 (as listed in the CDN) and a Proof 65 example bids at $1060.
Based upon the above figures, the price for a PR65 is 2.2 times the price of an MS65, yet Proofs are not twice as rare as business strikes, especially considering that many of the MS65 examples are better/scarcer dates and shouldn't even count in such a comparison of populations and prices.
There are a number of factors that can explain the relative prices vs. populations for these and other coin types and a discussion of them might prove to be interesting and informative. Of course, to be fair, it might not.
I did a website article on this subject a number of years ago and would be willing to do another one here, if enough forum members would have interest in seeing it.
Please raise your hand if you like the idea and if enough respondents vote yes, I will have something done in the next week or so.
0
Comments
Cameron Kiefer
Cameron Kiefer
he's not "king of the castle"
Mark, I vote, "yes, please"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Cameron Kiefer
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
This is what I'm talking about! I'm collecting Kennedy's though. It would be nice if someone could do this for us Kennedy Lovers! I couldn't stay away. And I'm not a Wimp or Whinner, just a "Coin Lover".
Stop wasting time and find me the coins on my want list!
Oh, alright -----
Michael
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Sorry, Lee, I can tell you in advance, that Kennedy's would not be included.
Michael, nothing "smart" about what I'd be doing - it would mostly involve number crunching and a bit of filtering/screening of coins, which for various reasons, couldn't or shouldn't be included. Now, go to the corner until you can behave.
I'd like to see your analysis, too.
In some series, Indian Head Cents for example, the reverse is true - MS coins are priced higher than proofs, for certain dates. I've always thought that was odd and have never studied the population reports to consider the supply side.
Mike
jim
Here's one potential source for error in your Barber Dime analysis (and any similar analysis using PCGS pop numbers):
The price differential between MS65 and MS66 is about 2.2x (per the PCGS price guide). The price differential between PR65 and PR66 is only about 1.25x. Therefore, the number of MS65 resubmissions is probably much greater than the number of PR65 resubmissions, as there is much more financial gain to be had upgrading the MS coin. Assuming there have been twice the number of resubmissions of MS coins compared with the PR coins, the pop. numbers are actually about the same, so the proofs have even more premium than you indicated.
A spreadsheet would be great (or a cut and paste from your post).
More work for you and more information for us.
See, it's a win-win situation.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
But, I didn't see a yes or a no vote anywhere in your post.
<< <i>Can you provide a link to the website article that you wrote, so we can get a better idea of your initial results, assumptions, etc.? Thanks >>
Longacre, I am sorry but I looked, and apparently the article is no longer available in the archives of the site it was posted on.
<< <i>Barry, that is a very good point, even if I hadn't thought of it.
But, I didn't see a yes or a no vote anywhere in your post.
The fact I'm posting a response is an implied yes
In some series, Indian Head Cents for example, the reverse is true - MS coins are priced higher than proofs, for certain dates. I've always thought that was odd and have never studied the population reports to consider the supply side.
It really would be interesting to see a graph of how bronze MS/Proof values in this series change over the duration of the series. Early date bronze business strikes just weren't preserved in mint condition the way their proof counterparts were, despite their relatively huge mintage figures.
Thanks for asking!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Camelot
I'll probably start with a small group of type coins, hit you with some population and price comparisons and request feedback from the forum. If it seems like it's going well/generating some interest, I'll do the same for additional types.
Who knows, maybe we can come up with our own FPS (Forum Price Sheet).
Camelot
I say DO IT!
Sweet. We might as well- it couldn't be any less accurate than any other price sheet.....
Come on over ... to The Dark Side!
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
While I saw one response that appeared to address price differential-stimulated demand, comparing the collector demand for MS versus Proof issues is pretty speculative.
i still have your analysis you did on this same subject like 6? years ago in hard copy form from the original newsletter it was published in and it would be interestingt to see the pop changes from six years ago and also the new price comparisons too!!
michael
BUT! On your Barber dime example wouldn't there be justification in the price difference because it SEEMS to be much tougher to locate a NICE proof example, as opposed to a NICE mint state example. Niether could be considered "easy", but I don't find such a hard time locating a nice ms example, as opposed to a nice proof.
With that said, regardless of what the POP's say, the proof coins seem to be much more scarcer than their numbers indicate, strictly going by general availability, hence, possibly justifying the price difference. My take on those numbers anyway.
I'll check back later tonight, off to the show for the day/night.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I realize you and allot of others have your websites listed below your signature line in your posts. Not everybody who reads a post clicks below someone's name after reading to go to their sites. But, if they have to go to their sites to read something, they're already there. They don't have to look at anybody's coins if they don't want to. Besides, if you and others who spend the time to write something like you are proposing, then why shouldn't your(their) reward be the "chance" someone may buy a coin?
I don't think it's sneaky or under handed at all. I think it's a good way to expose your inventory to more buyers.
Jerry
But regardless of the outcome I will still buy mint state coins!
I agree with Uncle Wiggly. Also a convenient way to archive your own articles etc. Don't worry, we will cut and paste it here anyway! Then you get free storage here as well for all of your articles!
Jerry and Oreville, I very much appreciate your kind sentiments. But, I had mentioned the possibility of such an article here, so I will post it here first, without requiring anyone to go to my website to see it. Perhaps I will post it there afterwards.
Cool, Franklins are still in
<< <i>First, I'd love to see the comparison. I would think it would be extremely informative.
BUT! On your Barber dime example wouldn't there be justification in the price difference because it SEEMS to be much tougher to locate a NICE proof example, as opposed to a NICE mint state example. Niether could be considered "easy", but I don't find such a hard time locating a nice ms example, as opposed to a nice proof.
With that said, regardless of what the POP's say, the proof coins seem to be much more scarcer than their numbers indicate, strictly going by general availability, hence, possibly justifying the price difference. My take on those numbers anyway.
I'll check back later tonight, off to the show for the day/night.
Hi coinguy 1,
I'd LOVE to see such an analysis as I collect Proof Type coins. I appreciated Barry's observations on the previous page, and what BigD5 says has some truth as I am sure you know (although a clean cheeked Barber in MS is very difficult from what I have seen). I had a very hard time finding an attractive Proof Barber 10c - I got lucky to find the Cameo - the Pop on a 1892 in Pr63Cam is 2 with 26 higher. It was under $500 - I think it is undervalued.
I look forward to seeing youre article. It is ok by me if you feel like focussing only on dimes....
Best,
Billy
<< <i>Cool, Franklins are still in >>
Foodude, I think NOT
<< <i>You betcha!! Learning always beats flaming ... hands down!
Just checking