Are toned coins more desirable in the older rattler and green label holders because.....
fivecents
Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
the toning craze was not as popular during the time that these slabs were produced, which means not very many coin doctors were bothering with artifically toning coins? I believe the AT/NT ratio was much, much lower during this time.
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<< <i>Are toned coins more desirable in the older rattler and green label holders because..... the toning craze was not as popular during the time that these slabs were produced, which means not very many coin doctors were bothering with artifically toning coins? >>
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
not even close, dude, not even close.
the toning "craze" is BY NO MEANS a recent phenomenon.
K S
The AT problem is not new. There were just as many, if not more, AT coins in 1986.
There were are lot of AT coins in the early 1980s...including the so-called "bullet toning" coins of the early 80s...
There were a lot of AT coins in the 70s...
and I have even seen AT coins roll out of old B. Max Mehl holders...."Say it ain't so, B. Max...Say it ain't so."
The belief that the toning craze is a recent phenomenon is absurd.
I don't know the answer to your question -- but here's a Morgan I toned with a mixture of eggs/onions/sulphur in about 12 hours while the coin was still in the old PCGS rattler slab. They aren't airtight and it's possible that you can tone them while in the slab.
If I can do this with common household products imagine what someone who knows what he is doing can do.
Michael
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
What many people do not understand is that most coins are AT'd by coin doctors to hide or mask OTHER problems with the coin (hairlines, putty, tooling, etc), not necessarily to make the coin worth a premium for it's beautiful color.
Probably at least 95% or greater of the AT'd toned Morgan dollars I've seen are instantly recognizable as such at first glance, and the other 5% in question are either recognizable after a closer look, or they are unattractive and not worthy of consideration for purchase anyway.
I have never seen a spectacularly toned Morgan (eg; a monster) in a PCGS holder that someone could offer PROOF to me was done by a coin doctor, regardless of claims to the contrary.
As far as the coin FrattLaw shows..............so what, it's nothing. It only proves that the older PCGS holders were not even close to being airtight and that airborne chemicals could penetrate the holders and put a bit of unattractive brown/ dark blue or burnt gold color on the coin. A coin like that would carry no color premium whatsoever, and if the colors turn darker after time or becomes splotchy or spotted, it may even make the coin worth less than an untoned coin. I've also seen experiments like that done in the past where nearly the entire coin turned a very unattractive rusty brown and dark blue/gold color, all that proved to me is that older holdered coins CAN be altered and ruined while still inside the holder, and NOT that someone can alter an older holdered coin to make it more valuable.
Soooooo, if you're not comforable or lack experience in making NT vs. AT decisions on your own, stick with PCGS holdered coins, ANY generation PCGS holdered coins, and you'll be ok.
dragon
I have no idea what I am doing and I got the coin to tone. Someone with the right intent and the right tools, could do far better than I.
Would it not then be easy to have to coin reholdered into a current generation slab? So that the purchaser would have no idea that the coin was from a rattler slab.
Michael
It's not hard to put some unattractive brown or dark blue/gold color on ANY silver coin through chemical or environmental enhancement, whether it be a raw coin, or in an older PCGS holder, and it only serves to show that coins can be altered somewhat, NOT made more valuable.
Now when you can do that AND artificially apply beautiful original mint bag type toning with vibrant shades of magenta, vibrant gold, seafoam greens, etc as well as make me agree the coin looks original.....THEN I'd like to hear about it, LOLOL.
True
Dragon,
I agree with your excellent points...especially the point that coins are toned in an attempt to hide problems. That's certainly what I've seen over the years.
Another thing that happens is that doctors will take a naturally toned coin and add a little toning...again, to hide problems.
David
<< <i>There were just as many, if not more, AT coins in 1986 >>
Please explain how there were more AT coins in 1986 than in 2004.
An AT coin can become natural again after enough time has passed?
Something like being a born-again virgin?
Mike
<< <i>Another thing that happens is that doctors will take a naturally toned coin and add a little toning...again, to hide problems >>
And/or to make them prettier, more desirable and more "valuable".
<< <i>Now when you can do that AND artificially apply beautiful original mint bag type toning with vibrant shades of magenta, vibrant gold, seafoam greens, etc as well as make me agree the coin looks original.....THEN I'd like to hear about it, LOLOL. >>
Well, I'll try, but I doubt if I'll ever be able to. Not sure if I want to though. If I can do it, then pretty much anyone else could learn as well. And we all know that wouldn't be a good thing.
Michael
<< <i>An AT coin can become natural again after enough time has passed? >>
No, but it can be dipped in the interim to remove the AT. Then it has a different issue...but no longer AT.
<< <i>Dragon, I agree with your excellent points... >>
so you are asserting that less than 2% of toned coins in pcgs slabs are a-t?
K S
What I said was the toning craze was not as popular as it is now. With ebay now in full swing and all the AT coins that are being pawned to the newbies. Are you trying to tell me that this was going as much in 1986- 1994 as it is now? I don't think so. I never thought I would say this to you, but the AT craze is more than just the certified coins, there is also something called RAW coins.
These coin doctors are only getting better...ever heard of the saying:"pratice makes perfect".
shamika...The same goes for you, read the above post before you slam someone.
<< <i>There were just as many, if not more, AT coins in 1986. >>
homerunhall.....You better sell that line to someone else because I am not buying it. I know there are more coin doctors ATing coins now than in 1986 thru 1994 when the green label slabs were produced.
Moderns were not on the list of "doctored" coins because as a rule, they weren't worth much of anything back then. Today a toned proof 1960 Jeff may be worth something. The only coins in the early part of slabdom that were preyed upon with AT were more expensive coins like Type coins and tougher date commems for example. Type coins were the cat's meoow in the late 1980's and I'd say most of the AT efforts where in that area. Today, everyone is trying to tone modern proofs, silver eagles, and Ikes for example.
There was no real market for those 16 years ago.
roadrunner