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The Morgan Dollar reference grading set that PCGS displays at shows sometimes

I'm not sure if they still do that thing where they display a whole run of Morgans in MS60, 61, 62, 63, 64, etc., but I always thought that was pretty cool.

And I believe, over time, PCGS has gotten quite good and very consistent at grading Morgans according to this standard.

Bt then I started to think that, in order to grade ANY series, you really need the same reference set concept, right? I could understand that the Morgan reference set probably applies to other silver dollar series, but certainly you can't use that reference set to help you grade, for example, Capped Bust $5 gold pieces. Or Roosevelt dimes. Or Voce Populi colonial coins from 1760.

So shouldn't PCGS have a reference set for all these series? How else could they apply a consistent grading standard? And how come they never bring the Voce Populi grading set to coin shows?

I think PCGS does a good job overall, and far better than the other guys, but I don't see how they can apply a consistent grading standard to some of these series unless a specific standard has been developed, vetted, shown, explained and literally laid out in front of the graders.

So shouldn't they attempt to assemble a reference set, series by series? Even if such series were borrowed, temporarily, from specialists, and not owned by PCGS (as that could get sort of expensive) its essential, don't you think?

If you believe I'm wrong, please slam me in the space provided below.







Comments

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    this leads into my complaint about grading error coins, for example brockages. is there a reference set of brockages from ag-3 up through ms-68???

    K S
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>this leads into my complaint about grading error coins, for example brockages. is there a reference set of brockages from ag-3 up through ms-68??? >>



    dorkkarl....With error coins, I always assumed PCGS would use the series grading set to grade these. A Lincoln cent brockage would be graded with the lincoln cent grading set....using the same: marks, strike, luster and eye appeal system to grade the brockage.
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    The error in your reasoning is that the Morgan dollar grading set is not used by PCGS for grading. It's only for display purposes. The graders spend about 30 seconds grading each coin, so comparing against a reference set isn't an option. The graders are suppose to know what the grade of a coin is without needing a reference. (That's why they make the big bucks.)
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson


  • << <i>The error in your reasoning is that the Morgan dollar grading set is not used by PCGS for grading. It's only for display purposes. The graders spend about 30 seconds grading each coin, so comparing against a reference set isn't an option. The graders are suppose to know what the grade of a coin is without needing a reference. (That's why they make the big bucks.) >>



    Of course PCGS graders don't literally compare each submitted Morgan to the reference set - but they do it figuritively. How else were Morgan standards originally developed? How could 2 different graders, one in the PCGS office and one grading walk-throughs at a show, come to the same conclusions about what MS63 means?

    Thats the problem, and thats my point.

    At some time in the past, PCGS developed a standard for what MS63 means to a Morgan dollar, and all the graders know what that standard is.

    I don't believe PCGS has applied the same rigor, or analysis, or comparison, to every other series, and thats a problem.

    But one that can be solved by creating grading sets for all series so as to develop an objective standard for each.

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i'd like to see their reference grading set for lord baltimore shillings, or bar cents.

    K S


  • << <i>

    << <i>this leads into my complaint about grading error coins, for example brockages. is there a reference set of brockages from ag-3 up through ms-68??? >>



    dorkkarl....With error coins, I always assumed PCGS would use the series grading set to grade these. A Lincoln cent brockage would be graded with the lincoln cent grading set....using the same: marks, strike, luster and eye appeal system to grade the brockage. >>



    So with that said, how do they go about grading an off-strike that has only a partial date? Such as this:

    19?? Wheatie
    image
    This is a very dumb ass thread. - Laura Sperber - Tuesday January 09, 2007 11:16 AM image

    Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing that the "grading set" for less common coins takes some combination of several forms:

    1) Extensive notes and digital pics of past graded examples
    2) Catalogs, books, or other reference material
    3) Grading knowledge of common coins of similar design and/or size
    4) For a truly rare item, get in touch with the accepted "expert"

    All it takes to be the "best" grader is the best information!

    I, on the other hand, have a dart board......

    Tom
    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    I'd love to see their reference set of draped bust, small eagle halves... image
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭


    << <i>And how come they never bring the Voce Populi grading set to coin shows? >>

    image

    I believe David has alluded to the graders reviewing the sets once a week or so. Maybe shoot him a Q&A on which sets, etc., and how often do they review those sets to stay a little better attuned to the 'standard'?

    Actually, when you're grading 800-1000 coins of all types per day, you will stay pretty much in sync as long as you don't get too tired or consume a large sack of bean burritos for lunch.... image

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