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TONING
Iwog
Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭
The hysteria about toned coins is getting out of hand. In addition, the number of "monsters" (as in hairy, scary, and undesirable to me at least) seems to be increasing at an alarming rate. Myself and others have warned for years on this very forum that loonatic prices in the toned coin market would drive research into applying artificial tarnish on coins until there was no way to tell the difference, and apparently the goods are here. Pages and pages of posts seeking opinions on AT vs NT just show how deep the insecurity has gotten, and the major grading services are no better than a coin flip.
So what next? A market crash? There have been mumblings in a few threads about people getting hurt on AT coin deals. I'm not suprised since for years every time a color monster shows up on these boards, a select few members (I don't need to name them) heap compliments and praise on the coin as if it was the unearthed holy grail. How can you blame someone new to the hobby for going on ebay and trying to find a coin that lives up to the elitist standard of original? And of course all those beautiful sparkly coins that this new collector USED to like are regularly trashed up and down for being "dipped out" or "unnaturally bright" every time they happen to peek out from a thread. I should know, I post examples regularly and they never fail to bring out a few derogatory comments.
I'm really too sleepy to ramble like this, but there was something about coming back to the board after a week or so and seeing page after page after PAGE of AT vs NT craziness that inspired me to comment. It's been awhile since I've seen this much emotional trauma over thin layers of silver sulfide.
So what next? A market crash? There have been mumblings in a few threads about people getting hurt on AT coin deals. I'm not suprised since for years every time a color monster shows up on these boards, a select few members (I don't need to name them) heap compliments and praise on the coin as if it was the unearthed holy grail. How can you blame someone new to the hobby for going on ebay and trying to find a coin that lives up to the elitist standard of original? And of course all those beautiful sparkly coins that this new collector USED to like are regularly trashed up and down for being "dipped out" or "unnaturally bright" every time they happen to peek out from a thread. I should know, I post examples regularly and they never fail to bring out a few derogatory comments.
I'm really too sleepy to ramble like this, but there was something about coming back to the board after a week or so and seeing page after page after PAGE of AT vs NT craziness that inspired me to comment. It's been awhile since I've seen this much emotional trauma over thin layers of silver sulfide.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert
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Still Bbag extreme toning that has gone so far that damages coin (corroded), cleaned coins, damaged coins, fakes but don't BB because of toning. Grade coins based mostly on surface quality/strike/luster. The market will respond over time to true rarity taking the wind out of the sails of the doctors now relying on false rarity
islemangu@yahoo.com
See Current Sales on Etsy
https://www.etsy.com/shop/Islemangu?ref=shop_profile&listing_id=4331147333
great idea, now lets put it into practice.
K S
Me thinks PCGS and NGC should have thought about this in the first place.
of placing a protective and colorful shield on the coin.
When that skin is stripped of and chemicals added, they
probably will not be stable over a prolonged period of time
as would a nice origonal tone.
Camelot
I think you have to break it down a little farther than that. Within the toned market there are several layers of coins. I think sitting on the top are those monsters, whether classic or modern that bring huge premiums. The second level are coins that are nice, but not quite there, for whatever reason, luster/marks/color to be monsters and then there is the 3rd level which I consider originally toned, perhaps not great colors or high grades but attractive original coins that don't appear to be messed with.
I think the top tier coins might be in for a fall if this whole AT vs. NT isn't resolved. Those are the coins that sell for insane money and are also most likely to be doctored IMHO. They are 1 of a kind coins in regards to grade and color.
The second level coins, perhaps those will more vivid color but not high grade might take a hit just because the market might determine they aren't acceptable anymore whether they are slabbed by PCGS or NGC or not. Other coins where the originality isn't in question will remain strong as will the 3rd level since again, the originality will still not be in question.
While some might collect toners for the colors, at least in my habits I like knowing that the coin doesn't appear to be dipped and it has some skin to it. Original, not colorful sometimes is the best coin you can purchase.
Michael
<< <i>There have been prime examples of highly graded coins, that I as you might as well say Not a Seasoned Pro, could spot for 5 miles....If they are going to grade according to who owns the coins..then the coin market is over for me and will be for many to come....Can They See they are destroying a fun and historical hobby which could be passed down to many generations to come...its rediculous what GREED has done and is doing. >>
All you have to do is look at American society in general and you can see the greed is destroying the country as a whole, it is a pattern that has been played out many times in the past in other societies that collapsed onto them selves.
The robber barrons forced manifest destiny, the computer barrons forced our technology to higher limits. All because of the almighty dollar. No one in the world does it better than America.
I have to go now and watch Wallstreet -- love that movie!
Michael
<< <i>If toned coins do return to yuck status like they were in the 1950s and 1960s, it will send market grading into chaos and leave a huge number of undesirable and unmarketable coins in premium grade holders.
Me thinks PCGS and NGC should have thought about this in the first place. >>
Other than the star designation given by NGC, technically the toning shouldn't affect the grade, up OR down, in the general case. Sure, I can imagine some borderline coins getting a bump for having attractive color, but they aren't going to put a weak technical 63 into a 64 holder because of toning.
The issue isn't with the slabbers as much as people bidding up spectacular toners, even in the same technical (and same slabbed) grades as coins with lesser or no toning.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>Whew!! For a moment there I thought chicken little had invaded the coin forum. >>
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>This thread was spot on about the market crash in toners. >>
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>This thread was spot on about the market crash in toners. >>
I'm not sure where that quote came from, as my quick look didn't turn it up within this thread. However, while that quote might one day prove to be "spot on about the market crash in toners", it certainly hasn't been to this point, some 16 months after this thread originated.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
If a true MS-65 coin has ugly toning it doesn't make it a 63 or 64. It's STILL a 65.
<< <i>Forget about "eye appeal" in the grading equation >>
My point is, that whatever type of grading (other than perfect) the major grading services do, they will be second guessed and complained about.
I'm getting screwed out of the correct grade for my coin just because someone doesn't like the way it looks and the buyer of the other coin is getting screwed because he's paying 66/67 money for a 65.
You can't argue with that. The system sucks, and eye-appeal has nothing to do with the physical state of preservation of the coin. Eye appeal is FAR more subjective an opinion than true technical grade. You can't argue about how many hits are on the coin, breaks in luster, etc. But not everyone has the same tastes when it comes to eye-appeal.
<< <i>I think everyone should dump their toners and get out now............
No Way. Just continue my discriminating way's
<< <i>
<< <i>I think everyone should dump their toners and get out now............
No Way. Just continue my discriminating way's
No really Lee..... am trying to look out for you and the other forum members....why take the risk with toners....dump them on the market now while the money is good and then I'll go to the bank and take out a loan to grab as many as I can when the prices drop
<< <i>I think everyone should dump their toners and get out now............
Vietnam Vet 69-70 - Semper Fi