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From the raregoldcoins.com archives: Why I like AU-58 Gold Coins (please post your own)

RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
WHY I LIKE AU-58 GOLD COINS
by Doug Winter Copyright © 2000

If you view my inventory, you will note that, typically, an abnormally high percentage of the coins that I have in stock grade About Uncirculated-58. There is a reason for this. As a major buyer of rare gold coins (and a student of coin values), I am firmly convinced that AU-58 is, in many cases, the best value grade for many rare issues.

The very concept of the AU-58 grade makes sense. Think about it this way: a coin is accorded an AU-58 grade because it possesses many positive attributes. It is regarded as being the "best" circulated grade so, therefore, it should have good eye appeal. Many AU-58 coins show very little actual wear, have a majority of their original mint luster and have extremely clean surfaces.

Compare this, in turn, to coins grade Mint State-60, Mint State-61 or even Mint State-62. These coins have been given the lowest Mint State designation because they lack the positive attributes that an AU-58 might have. As an example, the typical MS-60 or MS-61 gold coin will have heavily abraded surfaces and/or inferior overall eye appeal.

When you put a nice AU-58 coin side-by-side with a typical quality MS-60 or MS-61, it is very likely that the AU-58 will have superior eye appeal. But what is really amazing are the differences in prices between the AU-58 coin and the MS-61. Let's look at a few examples.

I recently had two 1839-C quarter eagles in stock. One was a really exceptional PCGS AU-58 that I sold to a collector for $9,250 (note that Trends as of 12/20/99 for this issue in AU-55 is $9750). I also had a nice NGC MS-61 in stock. I really liked this coin and regarded it as one of the two best examples of this date that I had ever seen. I sold it for $20,000 (Trends for this issue is $22,500 in MS-60 and $36,500 in MS-62). If you compared the two coins, the MS-61 was a hair nicer...but was it really worth $10,000+ more?

A few months back, I had two 1843-O eagles in stock: an NGC AU-58 and an NGC MS-60. I sold the first for $5,500 and the second for $14,500. In all honesty, I thought the AU-58 was a nicer coin and I'd much rather have had that piece and $9,000 leftover in my pocket than the MS-60.

My prediction is that you will see a tightening of the price spreads between AU-55 and MS-62 better date gold coins in the coming years. It has already happened in many 19th century silver types where the spreads between, say, MS-64 and MS-65 have decreased considerably in the past few years as the visual difference between these grades has diminished.

(end article)

Here is a recent acquisition in AU-58 from Doug Winter to illustrate the point:

image

Comments

  • Nice webb site----super job!!!image
    Larry
  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quick picture...Haven't figured out the lighting thing yet.....

    But either you're buying MY gold, or I'm buying YOURS. Either way, there's gonna be a fight. image
    image





    image
    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, wait....Just re-read your post. You're a dealer! Maybe I WILL buy your gold. image
    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    great thread

    michael
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    <------------------<<<

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You're a dealer! Maybe I WILL buy your gold.

    I am also a lowly collector. The article I posted was from another dealer's website (Doug Winter).

    Welcome to the boards.

    Robert
  • Although I'm not as knowledgeable as many of you on this board, I have also found this to be true.
  • I agree about au58 gold. That is the grade that I primarily collect on gold coins. The luster is usually very good and the coins can be found with very nice technical appeal as well.

    PCGS au 58
    image
    image
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    1. It's not only gold. I feel this way about silver.

    2. A lot of truly AU-58 coins (especially gold) are in MS grade holders.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Robert--

    First, I really like that coin that you posted. I also recently bought an AU-58 coin from Doug Winter and he outlined to me on the phone was was stated in his article. You definitely get more bang for your buck as he states. When I figure out how to post a picture, I will!
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Did someone say AU-58 gold?

    Some of the nicer ones look much, much better than the typical 60s and 61s that look like they have the worst case of numismatic acne ever inflicted on coins -- particularly the larger and heavier gold coins. And many of the common dates are still selling for a surprisingly small numismatic premium over the price of gold. And for better date gold, such as early branch mint gold where ANY mint state piece is ridiculously expensive, a premium quality AU can be SO much cheaper and yet SO Much nicer to look at than a typical 60 or 61.

    More than anything, in gold I focus on coins that don't have too many blemishes. Many of the truly choice 58s with very few abrasions are in 62 holders these days anyway, so finding one that looks better than most 61s and 62s can be pretty tough.

    1893 Half Eagle, PCGS AU-58
    image

    1904 Eagle, PCGS AU-58
    imageimage

    1914-D Double Eagle, NGC AU-58
    imageimage
  • For decades dealers have known to look for the 'super sliders' ie. the AU-58 coins with eye appeal and original surfaces, but their hard to find and psychologically hard to buy because they are usually priced a more than 'sheet'.
    Now knowledgable dealers are also double checking especially the 61 and 62 grades looking for the coins with really nice unabraded surfaces, original 'frost' but because they haven't been dipped or processed the holder hasn't been maxed out. For reasons that elude me so many third party graders like bright coins resulting in the 'processing' of so many coins. Above is not to be confused with mint "blast', also I'll restrict my comments to gold and silver coins.
    Long term prediction the desirability of original, eye appealing coins whether circulated or uncirculated will lead to increasing price differentials as compared to the typical specimens of the same grade.
    Collect for enjoyment
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Dahlonega-- great comments. The problem that I am having is trying to tell when a coin is "original" (undipped), rather than dipped. Is there any easy way to tell? The coin that I bought from Pinnacle was original (as per Doug Winter, and I believe him), but I am having trouble telling an original one from a dipped coin. Any things I should be looking for? Thanks.
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    I have beed collecting/buying ms 61-63 indian $5 and $10 but one of the early coins I got was an au 58 pictured below. For an ms collector, heading into au58's is almost like going to the dark side but it is the only logical step when maintaining an equality between dollar value and quality of the coin. This coin has been posted here before but just as an evidenciary statement in support of RYK's post it is offered again.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any things I should be looking for? Thanks.

    I will not answer for the D-man (he has probably looked at 1000 coins for every one that I have, but he has also taught me quite a bit. Unfortunately, the answer is somewhat elusive, and the more I learn, the more I realize that I know less than I thought. image

    I think originality is much more difficult than grading, and there are varying degrees of originality, as well. Looking at a number of coins on your own is useful. You will quickly be able to discern which have "the crust" and which do not. It would be a great help to have an expert at your side teaching you the nuances.

    Dream vacations for ryk:

    A. Kona with my wife (no kids!)
    B. Bicycle trip with family on the Oregon Coast
    C. Golfing trip with buddies in Scottland
    D. Spending unhurried and uninterrupted time reviewing all of the gold coin auction lots at FUN with "Dahlonega"
  • Lots of experience and a good mentor. Also find a few dealers you trust and always get a second opinion on any important coin. Although I've been collecting gold coins seriously for 44 years I try and get a second opinion before buying a coin for my personal collection. It's not unusual for dealers to do the same (of course only from someone whose ability they respect). Pride and/or ignorance have cost many more than a few dollars over the years. Finally remember its your collection, have fun. As a store of value for the learned collector coins are great as an investment most eventually get burned. (IMHO)
    Collect for enjoyment
  • jomjom Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mr. Winter is correct....theoretically. The problem is something Barry mentioned:



    << <i>2. A lot of truly AU-58 coins (especially gold) are in MS grade holders. >>



    While the coins Mr. Winter deals in may not have this problem but the coins I collect ($10 and $5 Indians) DO have this problem. I see it constantly. The reason for it, I believe, is that many times the price differences in the later dated coinage when going from AU to MS is not great enough to keep the TPG's from gradeflation. Some of the earlier material have huge premiums for MS60 coins because that is what is expected: True Mint State. With 20th Century issues most issues are not particularly rare in MS. Maybe in MS63/64 and above but not in just True Mint State. So there is a tendancy for the TPG's to "market" grade the coins...hence many AU pieces get into MS holders.

    jom

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