Please help grade this -- Seated Dollar

ashmore

Let's grade this coin. It is challenging me. The coin was photographed with an Olympus E-20N in very bright flourescent light. The enhanced hairlines in the pictures are simple wear on the coin. There are no signs of "harsh" cleaning.

1861 Liberty Seated Dollar


Ash Harrison

PutTogether

I'm willing to bet that that coin is confusing you because of the huge disparity between the obverse and reverse. That was the absolute first thing I notced while looking.

I'd call the obverse a 12 and reverse a 30/35. Now what that means as an overall grade varies WILDLY from person to person. Math logic would tell you that 12+30 / 2 equals 21.

However, the obverse carries more weight (understandable)

In fact, I think as fas as grades are concerned in a coin of this nature, the higher grade of the reverse is totally ignored and the coin is given the lower obverse grade.

Some would say a lower graded obverse deserves a bump, albeit a slight one, for having a fantastic reverse.

If I had my way, I'd call it exactly what it is : an F12/VF30 coin. But I think in real market terms, it would be an F12 - possibly an F15 if a bump is given for the much nicer reverse.

FINAL NOTE: coins like these are why it is so important to accureatly describe coins, instead of just mentioning a single numerical grade.

sliderider

I say cleaned, no grade.

dorkkarl

vf-35. the rev. is clearly xf-45+, but w/out a stronger "liberty", you just can't qualify this coin for higher than outside a vf grade.

might be cleaned - the lighting looks very harsh in the digi-pic.

K S

ashmore

Just as a point of clarity on this item.

The way it was shot was very much a shortcut due to the fact that it was 2am and the remains of the hurricane are outside. I shot it with high intensity fluorescent light and it cast such an orange unnatural tone to the coin that I used the color balancing capability of Photoshop to correct the color. This did wonders for the right shade of the coin, but "blew out" the light highlights on the coin, making it looked cleaned.

It isn't. It is simple wear. I know this complicates the grading, but I need suggestions on the great disparity of the obverse/reverse grade of the coin.

Were the 1861 obverses typically weak? I once had an 1865 PCGS20 and it looked the same way, with Liberty weak.

Thanks,

Ash

ziggy29

This is a tough one. In terms of wear it might go XF, but the weakness of LIBERTY in the shield won't support that. I'd probably be inclined to say VF-30, but if I were selling it I'd be sure to describe it as more than a number: worth about VF-30 money in my opinion, probably XF in terms of actual wear but that the weakness in the obverse (particularly on the shield) probably wouldn't justify XF money.

Then again, I don't know Seated dollars all that well, and if this date is regularly struck with poor details on the shield, I might grade it XF-40 but would still note a very weak strike on the shield. But even then, I'd probably stay with VF-35. Like the dork, I'm not sure I can see giving an XF grade to a coin where LIBERTY is this weak, even with a borderline AU reverse.

dorkkarl

the wear on the shield is only 1 of several grade indicators. the coin has obvious luster, which puts it at xf-45, but i'd deduct 5 points for a weak obv. strike, & 5 more points because seeing LIBERTY complete is so important in higher grades on seated lib's.

K S

Bunker

How would a coin wear like this if it is not a weak strike? If someone used it as a pocket piece could that make the wear that uneven?