Just to give my 2 cents, If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR" I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
<< <i>Just cause ANACS has marked a coin as AT does not mean it is AT (nor an AT coin NT because they slabbed it). TBT has seen the actual coin in person and in his expert opinion it was incorrectly attributed by ANACS, he in turn bought it and probably made some good money. There is nothing wrong with that as many other experts on this board regularly make "rips" and brag about it here (some for significantly more than I'm sure TBT made here). It's just the workings of one transaction that has seemingly become transparent and open to criticisms. There is no proof that the coin is really AT and if I remember correctly, many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
Most of the "rips" I hear people brag about here are ones where they purchase a raw coin or already slabbed coin--undergraded and then have it graded by NGC or PCGS. Based on the new grade they profit. Not on their own description or opinion which is opposite a quality grading company. Neither do I see them crackout a coin from a grading company and then decalre it significant better coin than the grading company said.
TBT bought a graded coin and couldn't get the grade he wanted now unloads it out of the slab to make a score--unethical at the least.
I know a little about trading cards and this goes on all the time--a raw trading card often is worth more than a low graded card--easy to crackout and hype to get a big score.
<< <i>Just cause ANACS has marked a coin as AT does not mean it is AT (nor an AT coin NT because they slabbed it). TBT has seen the actual coin in person and in his expert opinion it was incorrectly attributed by ANACS, he in turn bought it and probably made some good money. There is nothing wrong with that as many other experts on this board regularly make "rips" and brag about it here (some for significantly more than I'm sure TBT made here). It's just the workings of one transaction that has seemingly become transparent and open to criticisms. There is no proof that the coin is really AT and if I remember correctly, many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
Well, here's one, from the same Seller ("artist"):
The only difference is, as he emailed me, he was a bit more subtle with the Morgan... >>
Just to give my 2 cents, If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR" I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
I would venture to guess the other services had already seen it before it got to ANACS, that's why it was in their slab.
The soft underbelly of resale has been tested here no doubt, and (with thanks to Russ) a few suggestions about EBay protocol:
1. When reselling an EBay item always wait until the images have been snuffed. People here know how to search. 2. Posting a coin here is a double edged sword -- even if you describe it as AT in jest. Be up front on the forum, we know how to search. 3. Don't crack a coin out of an ANACS holder unless it grades with PCGS/NGC, or you state the fact. I've lost plenty of money keeping them ANACS slabbed but I can sleep at night.
<< <i>many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
<< <i> Just to give my 2 cents, If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR" I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
I would venture to guess the other services had already seen it before it got to ANACS, that's why it was in their slab. >>
I have no doubt that after it was purchased in the ANACS slab that it was sent in to either PCGS or NGC as TBT has a history of sending in coins looking for better value (as most all smart dealers do) and was body bagged which is why it is now being offered as raw. This looks like one of those pieces that will always be surrounded by controversy even if it does end up in a top tier slab.
After reading about the 10th post on this thread, I stopped to roll up my pants legs. Now that I've read them all up to here, my trousers are still soiled. This is embarrassing to the numismatic hobby. After 50+ years as a private collector, I'm not surprised by anything anymore, but I am almost ashamed to admit that I collect coins. PHEW!!!
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
I really think laizse-faire (Sorry, can't remember proper spelling) isn't the best thing for the hobby though... it's what allows the scammers to survive, and rip off unsuspecting collectors...
As for my comments about this thread... I think it is a shady thing for Anaconda to do, and I disagree with his approach. Some people brought up other people's rips... those are quite different... they are rips from Dealers, not ripping off collectors, like it would seem Anaconda is doing here, by marketing his coin this way... What Russ and Marty and others do, is cherrypick dealers who haven't taken the time to learn their craft in the things they sell, in this case Proof Sets... true, shame on a collector for not learning before buying, but doubly shame on the dealer that takes advantage of this... And TBT, no offense, but I find it hard to belive that if you had owned this coin, and thought that it would slab at PCGS or NGC, that you didn't try to slab it yourself, especially when an obscenely huge profit was possible...
Is the coin AT? Or NT? I haven't the slightest clue... but it sures likes pretty to me... though I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on a raw coin for that much over greysheet because of the color, and the possiblity of not being able to resell it...
<< <i>I really think laizse-faire (Sorry, can't remember proper spelling) isn't the best thing for the hobby though... it's what allows the scammers to survive, and rip off unsuspecting collectors... >>
If pure laissez-faire capitalism was best for the hobby, you wouldn't see a lot of numismatists rushing to expose ripoffs.
Having said that, if a coin is properly described and pictured, it's worth what a willing, educated buyer will pay for it -- no more, no less. It's the "educated" part that is a concern, because many ripoffs are targeted at buyers who really don't know much about coins or the coin market. My problem with this one is that the seller clearly KNEW that a professional opinion (at ANACS) said it was AT, but did not disclose that. Even if they think ANACS is wrong and that it's NT, they should at least disclose it and describe why they think it's NT.
The silence is deafening. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but as someone who hasn't done any personal business with either person involved, I have to say...it will probably stay that way. Very disappointing. The non-disclosure of an extremely material fact on the coins toning is more than 'skillful marketing' IMO. The previous buyers rush to defend the seller when he was also aware of the prior toning opinion without disclosing his knowledge again leaves no other inference than it was being done with the intent to decieve board members. Sorry...I can't get to any other conclusion.
Comments
If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR"
I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
Scott
Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
I guess this just confirms the old saying: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
<< <i>Just cause ANACS has marked a coin as AT does not mean it is AT (nor an AT coin NT because they slabbed it). TBT has seen the actual coin in person and in his expert opinion it was incorrectly attributed by ANACS, he in turn bought it and probably made some good money. There is nothing wrong with that as many other experts on this board regularly make "rips" and brag about it here (some for significantly more than I'm sure TBT made here).
It's just the workings of one transaction that has seemingly become transparent and open to criticisms. There is no proof that the coin is really AT and if I remember correctly, many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
Most of the "rips" I hear people brag about here are ones where they purchase a raw coin or already slabbed coin--undergraded and then have it graded by NGC or PCGS. Based on the new grade they profit. Not on their own description or opinion which is opposite a quality grading company. Neither do I see them crackout a coin from a grading company and then decalre it significant better coin than the grading company said.
TBT bought a graded coin and couldn't get the grade he wanted now unloads it out of the slab to make a score--unethical at the least.
I know a little about trading cards and this goes on all the time--a raw trading card often is worth more than a low graded card--easy to crackout and hype to get a big score.
Rookie Joe
Nice job Braddick
<< <i>
<< <i>Just cause ANACS has marked a coin as AT does not mean it is AT (nor an AT coin NT because they slabbed it). TBT has seen the actual coin in person and in his expert opinion it was incorrectly attributed by ANACS, he in turn bought it and probably made some good money. There is nothing wrong with that as many other experts on this board regularly make "rips" and brag about it here (some for significantly more than I'm sure TBT made here).
It's just the workings of one transaction that has seemingly become transparent and open to criticisms. There is no proof that the coin is really AT and if I remember correctly, many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
Well, here's one, from the same Seller ("artist"):
The only difference is, as he emailed me, he was a bit more subtle with the Morgan... >>
Rookie Joe
If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR"
I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
I would venture to guess the other services had already seen it before it got to ANACS, that's why it was in their slab.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
1. When reselling an EBay item always wait until the images have been snuffed. People here know how to search.
2. Posting a coin here is a double edged sword -- even if you describe it as AT in jest. Be up front on the forum, we know how to search.
3. Don't crack a coin out of an ANACS holder unless it grades with PCGS/NGC, or you state the fact. I've lost plenty of money keeping them ANACS slabbed but I can sleep at night.
<< <i>many people were really enamored with it when originally posted by Anaconda. If AT, where are it's many brothers and sisters that almost always follow? >>
exactly what I was thinking.
peacockcoins
interesting stuff tho
<< <i> Just to give my 2 cents,
If I had thought this Beautiful coin was 100% NT, I would have sent that baby streight to NGC for a Well deserving "STAR"
I personaly would not have ever let ANACS even see the coin. But that is just me
I would venture to guess the other services had already seen it before it got to ANACS, that's why it was in their slab. >>
I have no doubt that after it was purchased in the ANACS slab that it was sent in to either PCGS or NGC as TBT has a history of sending in coins looking for better value (as most all smart dealers do) and was body bagged which is why it is now being offered as raw. This looks like one of those pieces that will always be surrounded by controversy even if it does end up in a top tier slab.
LINKY
Rookie Joe
RR
<< <i>I think these are better than the one in question here. >>
Yuk!!! Gee, wonder why they didn't get a bid.
ANA#R216999
WINS#482
EAC#5255
CONECA#N-3902
Coin Community Forum
<< <i>
<< <i>I think these are better than the one in question here. >>
Yuk!!! Gee, wonder why they didn't get a bid. >>
Anaconda's didn't either
Rookie Joe
michael
<< <i>While this auction may not be a scam in the typical sense, this type of activity is shady and shows a lack of ethics IMO. >>
I agree also. Maybe this is what Laura was talking about on her website. mike
<< <i>coins is capitalism in its rawest form
michael >>
I really think laizse-faire (Sorry, can't remember proper spelling) isn't the best thing for the hobby though... it's what allows the scammers to survive, and rip off unsuspecting collectors...
As for my comments about this thread... I think it is a shady thing for Anaconda to do, and I disagree with his approach. Some people brought up other people's rips... those are quite different... they are rips from Dealers, not ripping off collectors, like it would seem Anaconda is doing here, by marketing his coin this way... What Russ and Marty and others do, is cherrypick dealers who haven't taken the time to learn their craft in the things they sell, in this case Proof Sets... true, shame on a collector for not learning before buying, but doubly shame on the dealer that takes advantage of this... And TBT, no offense, but I find it hard to belive that if you had owned this coin, and thought that it would slab at PCGS or NGC, that you didn't try to slab it yourself, especially when an obscenely huge profit was possible...
Is the coin AT? Or NT? I haven't the slightest clue... but it sures likes pretty to me... though I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on a raw coin for that much over greysheet because of the color, and the possiblity of not being able to resell it...
42/92
<< <i>I really think laizse-faire (Sorry, can't remember proper spelling) isn't the best thing for the hobby though... it's what allows the scammers to survive, and rip off unsuspecting collectors... >>
If pure laissez-faire capitalism was best for the hobby, you wouldn't see a lot of numismatists rushing to expose ripoffs.
Having said that, if a coin is properly described and pictured, it's worth what a willing, educated buyer will pay for it -- no more, no less. It's the "educated" part that is a concern, because many ripoffs are targeted at buyers who really don't know much about coins or the coin market. My problem with this one is that the seller clearly KNEW that a professional opinion (at ANACS) said it was AT, but did not disclose that. Even if they think ANACS is wrong and that it's NT, they should at least disclose it and describe why they think it's NT.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
ANA#R216999
WINS#482
EAC#5255
CONECA#N-3902
Coin Community Forum
<< <i>I would really like to hear Anaconda's side of this. I am not encouraged by his continued silence. >>
I'd also like to know what he said to Braddick to get him to edit his posts and make an apology.