A royal scr*wing on eBay

jrdolan · September 25, 2004 2:10AM

On 8/21, I bid and won this auction. I paid with PayPal.

In the past month of email exchanges, the seller has claimed repeatedly that he shipped the item. Messages left on voice mail, no response.

Today, I see this auction. It's the same card, with the same BVG serial number on the flip.

PayPal won't help because it is more than 30 days since the purchase date (the seller strung me along for weeks). eBay won't help other than to recommend asking Square Trade to mediate ($20 fee) or filing a fraud claim ($25 processing fee). My loss is $24.99 plus shipping, so these are not reasonable avenues of recourse. eBay also recommends contacting law enforcement if I feel I have been defrauded, but this level of fraud is not worth their while.

I believe this seller is well aware of all the rules and limitations of eBay and PayPal, and knows I am pretty much helpless once he got me past the 30-day PayPal window for a chargeback. Any ideas, beyond posting neg. feedback?

Axtell · September 25, 2004 2:21AM

I'd post negative feedback, reference this auction number and the new one (to show you've been screwed), and to keep track of his auctions. Let him know you are going to be emailing everyone of his bidder as to his practices. Tell him he'll never sell anything on ebay again.

Once his income potential is threatened, I think he'll be more open to sending you the card.

WinPitcher · September 25, 2004 2:38AM

i wouldnt tell him that id just do it...he could then go pvt auction if you tip your hand

SoFLPhillyFan · September 25, 2004 2:44AM

He seems to have had the same problem with others and always has a lame excuse.

Negs

Takes a minute to load link.

jrdolan · September 25, 2004 3:02AM

Well, now I'm his latest neg. Maybe it will get his attention. I have notified the latest buyer of this card that I already paid for it and to contact me before sending payment. I'm sure I'll get a retaliatory neg, and I'm curious what excuse he will dream up. He can't get around the same serial number on the BVG flip.

EagleEyeKid · September 25, 2004 3:11AM

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. That seller is a loser!
I love the excuses they give after 3 weeks or more; that's why
I always make sure my claim gets in before the 30 days are up.
If I get the card, then fine I'd drop the claim regardless of their excuses.

Vargha · September 25, 2004 6:36AM

Get a fake ID(s) and bid up his auctions with "top all" type of bids.

DirtyHarry · September 25, 2004 7:40AM

JR - what this guy has done is total BS. I feel bad for you.
I think we should bombard him with e-mails, telling him we are thinking of bidding on his current auction on the Bench card, but are confused because in closed auctions the same card was already sold. I'll sign up for that. He deserves $25 worth of torture.

If you are in, and to expedite the bombing, save us some time by posting the current auction#, the previous auction# and his email address. Regards.

jrdolan · September 25, 2004 8:16AM

I don't condone mail-bombing anyone *ahem* and this particular auction has ended. But for those who are interested in learning about (and avoiding) such flagrant eBay chicanery...

5115745926 is the auction where I bought this 1969 Bench card, with BVG serial #0000120950, on Aug. 21. I paid for my purchase the same day, and I still have the PayPal receipt email.

5124659461 is the auction where he resold this 1969 Bench card, with BVG serial #0000120950, on Sept. 25. This is after he strung me along for a month, claiming he shipped it and was trying to track it down.

The email address for import-export-co is DEEZCANDY@aol.com ... Oops, I didn't mean to make that a link. *cough*

Stone193 · September 25, 2004 12:09PM

JR
This is interesting about paypal. They have a 30 day window but they will try to act on your behalf according to a rep I talked with in March. I had a guy sell me a trimmed card - essence - ran thru 30 day window but paypal still did a chargeback after I provided them with proper documentation on what happended. Just curious what they actually said.
your friend
Mike

jtls67 · September 25, 2004 12:41PM

I have found in many instances Paypal will not persue the claim for many reasons, some of them being the claim is 30 days old, or in the event merchandise is delivered though not as described. I noticed a loophole when I bought a graded card from a loser who cut the holder and switched the card and Paypal refused to help me in any way because the item was "delivered" even though delivered "not as described". In this instance filing a chargeback by the credit card I paid with got me my money back because it forced the investigation on Paypal. Do not believe the little statement on the Paypal website that says paying with a transfer from a bank account is just as secure as paying with a credit card. It just isn't true. I also withdraw any funds from the account so I am always paying new purchases with a credit card and not a paypal balance. I have had good luck with chargebacks using discovercard. I cannot comment on others.

jrdolan · September 25, 2004 12:56PM

Stone -- When I filed a complaint under "Buyer Protection" the PayPal computer instantly informed me that my claim was rejected and closed the case. When I emailed to ask why, I received a form letter saying that PayPal does not respond to claims more than 30 days after the payment date ... NO exceptions. I wrote back to explain that the seller had strung me along for weeks. Finally a real person wrote back and said I should have filed before the 30 days were up, even if I was waiting on a promise from the seller. That seems to contradict the notion that you're supposed to give the seller time to comply. The lesson is, file your claim with PayPal before 30 days, even if you still think the seller will make good. I guess you can withdraw the claim later.

jtis67 -- I too have been the victim of that kind of scam, but much more extreme. I paid $950 for a 1965 Mantle PSA 8. The seller sent a handful of worthless 2004 commons. PayPal declined to take action, calling it a "dispute over quality of goods received." This seller, or whoever was running him, knew well about what PayPal will and will not do. So they sent junk and used delivery confirmation so they would have a tracking number. The problem is that the loopholes are well known to the crooks, and they expoit them to the utmost. P.S. -- I did get my money back, as did some other victims, when we tracked down the punk and his father repaid us so his little boy wouldn't become the b*tch of someone named Bubba in the state pen. But it was no thanks to PayPal or eBay.

helionaut · September 26, 2004 12:40AM

I'd recommend saving both auction pages (in your browser click "File/Save Page" (or something similar depending). This will save the HTML page and all images associated with it. Then you can put those pages up on the net somewhere to reference after the auction is removed from ebay's system.

schr1st · September 26, 2004 1:25AM

I've completed one transaction with the seller (1994 UD Michael Jordan PSA/DNA 8), and recently purchased a Bill Russell PSA/DNA 6 Rookie from him. Thanks for the heads-up; if it isn't here in a week or so, I'll contact paypal.

phreakydancin · September 26, 2004 1:52AM

Is there a reason that you couldn't report the NEW auction to eBay as fraudulent, referencing the old auction number and your Paypal transaction number?

jrdolan · September 26, 2004 2:05AM

<< Is there a reason that you couldn't report the NEW auction to eBay as fraudulent, referencing the old auction number and your Paypal transaction number? >>

I did so, and the eBay investigator said he couldn't stop the auction but he was investigating. The new winner of this card has been informed, as well (I warned him against paying). The dispute is on this seller's record with PayPal, though I couldn't get a chargeback, and there is negative feedback. I may never see my money again, but maybe I will give the seller $24.99 worth of a headache.

Stone193 · September 26, 2004 4:46AM

<< Finally a real person wrote back >>

Jr
I called them and talked to a live person - (402) 935-2050 or (888) 221-1161 - they told me the 30 day window was exceeded but would put it thru - and they did do a charge back - it was in March I believe and the purchase was in Jan. with Kane04 who emailed me calling me everything but a ^&***&%$$!!!!!
It was only for 70 bucks but it was the principle of it. I also would have gotten a charge back, anyway, from my credit card company - so I was kind of working two sides of the street.
For you, I know it isn't for a lot of $, but the principle - right?
Good luck
Your friend
Mike

jrdolan · September 26, 2004 6:30AM

<< 
For you, I know it isn't for a lot of $, but the principle - right? >>

Right, Mike. Thanks for the phone numbers! I'll call PayPal tomorrow. Maybe I can give him a royal pain in his ass AND get my money back. He deserves no less for such a brazen fraud.

damnyankees · September 26, 2004 8:14AM

What I'd do is if he isn't going to send the card,then put an outreagous bid on the card.A taste of his own medicine!!!

EagleEyeKid · September 26, 2004 9:42AM

Finally a real person wrote back and said I should have filed before the 30 days were up, even if I was waiting on a promise from the seller. That seems to contradict the notion that you're supposed to give the seller time to comply.

I usually file a claim on the 21th day (3 weeks is plenty). I felt that I have given the seller plenty of time to get off his ass and send me my item. Also, under Paypal's terms.....the seller must get you your item(s) within 7 days from your Paypal date of purchase. Yup, that's exactly what it says. So for all of those who contradict the notion of "what's the hurry, I mail my stuff out once a week" or whatever reason....I do not care! I paid fast, I expect the same in receiving my item.

JR, don't get mad....get even! My post several months ago.
Revenge is always served sweet. That's why you need 5 or more Ebay IDs for jerks like that.

jrdolan · September 27, 2004 1:38PM

Update: Since my neg, several other customers of this creep have emailed me saying they were screwed in a similar fashion, around the same time frame. It seems when his card sells for less than he'd hoped, he likes to pretend he was never paid, or that he shipped the card. He strings you along with promises and verrrry slow responses, until PayPal's 30-day chargeback period expires.

I've advised these people to do as I have done: Fully document the fraud to eBay's Safe Harbor department, and to PayPal even if they won't enforce a refund. Maybe we can get this guy's account yanked if enough legitimate complaints are filed.

RepublicaninMass · September 27, 2004 11:14PM

<< He seems to have had the same problem with others and always has a lame excuse.

Negs

Takes a minute to load link. >>

How were you able to just veiw the negatives of a seller? Noticed the url too haus....explain please !

aloof1003 · September 28, 2004 12:03AM

neg link

use this.

scott

MadMonk · September 28, 2004 12:28AM

Theft

kehfee · September 28, 2004 2:40AM

I don't buy the logic that if one pays fast he should have his stuff fast. I think the person should ship the next day, but its up to the mail after that.

Of course you have to look at where the seller is shipping from. I got a few emails from people after a week wondering where their stuff was. And I had to mention that I live in Canada and it takes a bit longer. Usually stuff takes about 10 days, but it has taken up to a month for items to arrive to people sometimes.

fsjeter · September 28, 2004 4:48AM

How many people do you need for a class action suit? If all of you band together and go after them with a fraud claim, you can get punitive damages as well, right? He/She advertises a "100% money back guarantee" yet does not honor it. I would try to find out where this person is and file a complaint with the Attorney General's office in that state. Combine the evidence from the other people and they will have no choice but to investigate it. You may not get your money back but they may end up doing time! Especially if you all get together on this.

Best of luck to you!

Scott

jrdolan · September 28, 2004 2:07PM

He's no longer responding to his negs, and emails and phone calls have gone unanswered for many days now. He may be preparing to clean out his PayPal after the latest round of sales and dump his current eBay identity.

jrdolan · September 30, 2004 12:30AM

Well, he left me a retaliatory neg, claiming he shipped the card and I should have bought insurance. This is AFTER I documented to eBay and PayPal (and to him) that he had resold my card while keeping my money.

I wonder if he was always such a bad person, or if eBay just brought out the worst in him. Strange thing is he does have much more positive feedback than negative. Maybe he only pulls this stuff when his cards sell too cheaply and he doesn't want to make the sale. It's still theft, though, to keep the money AND the merchandise.

By the way, he is still running auctions and I am sending proof of his fraud to other winners. My loss was $27.99, but I hope I am costing him more than that in headaches. He's going to wish he had just honored the sale.

rw2win · October 5, 2004 4:20AM

Any update on this loser!

jrdolan · October 5, 2004 12:35PM

The update is that import-export-co sent my card to the second buyer, a dealer named Dave Schrader, who completely acknowledges I was scammed. The BVG number on the card he received is the same as the card I won and paid for a month earlier. I accepted his kind offer to split the loss (which he was under no obligation to do). So I ended up paying 1.5 times my original bid, and he will lose half of his bid. Assuming this goes through as expected, I can't say enough good things about this guy.

As for the seller, import-export-co, he retaliated with a neg and called me a liar, claiming he sent me the card. He did this while reselling the card. Of course in my response I pointed this out and listed the auction numbers. I don't know if anyone would trouble to check it out, but the proof is there for the viewing.

PayPal totally hosed me, eBay was not much more helpful, though they were sympathetic and I hope they are keeping an eye on this bozo.

Lesson: File a complaint when your order is 2 weeks late, no matter what the seller says. If you let it go 30 days, kiss your money goodbye.

goodriddance189 · October 5, 2004 3:47PM

<< The email address for import-export-co is DEEZCANDY@aol.com ... Oops, I didn't mean to make that a link. *cough* >>

he just got signed up for 50-75 porn emails. hope he enjoys em

Stone193 · October 5, 2004 3:56PM

<< he just got signed up for 50-75 porn emails. hope he enjoys em >>

jrdolan · October 5, 2004 9:59PM

<< he just got signed up for 50-75 porn emails. hope he enjoys em >>

I don't know how good AOHell is at screening out this stuff, but I hope some of it is the really disgusting kind, involving farm animals and stuff.

jrdolan · October 5, 2004 11:38PM

I'm going to try a little honey instead of castor oil. If it works, I will pay back Mr. Schrader for his share of the loss he split with me. I sent this email to the seller, with copies to eBay and PayPal:

Hello, import-export-co

I won your eBay auction 5115745926 on 8/21. This was 1969 Johnny Bench BVG 7.5 with BVG serial # 0000120950. I paid with PayPal the same day. I have the PayPal receipt and can provide it upon request .

On 9/25 you sold the item again in eBay auction 5124659461. It was my exact purchased card, 1969 Johnny Bench BVG 7.5 with BVG serial # 0000120950. I have been in contact with the buyer, Dave Schrader, who has received the item. He confirms it is the came card, the same serial number, that I paid for in August.

Because of the above proof that I paid you for an item and did not receive it, I am requesting a refund of $24.99 plus $3 shipping. Thank you for your time.

John Dolan

cc: eBay customer support, PayPal customer support

SDavid · October 6, 2004 10:23AM

If he doesn't respond, file a complaint with the US Postal Inspectors. My mailman has told me in the past that they actually are pretty responsive. They responded to a complaint I filed when a buyer claimed he didn't receive a package I sent via registered mail. They didn't prosecute him (he didn't file a chargeback, he was just being a dishonest PITA), but they got him off my back. Anyway, it would only take 5 minutes to file a complaint from their web site. If nothing else, something would be on record if there's a "next time" with this seller.

schr1st · October 6, 2004 11:46AM

Did he say that the card was mailed, or that it was shipped? I just got my Russell Rookie today via Fedex. If he says it was sent via Fedex, it will have a tracking number. No tracking # = more ammo to go after him with. If he says it was mailed, then it could be considered mail fraud.

SDavid · October 6, 2004 12:41PM

Now that I think about it, the lot I purchased from him a year ago was also sent by Fed Ex. Incidentally, I asked him about the status of the order before it arrived and he sent me the tracking # right off the bat.

jrdolan · October 6, 2004 1:20PM

No doubt he has treated most of his customers right. His feedback is 99.6% positive, so clearly a lot of buyers are satisfied. I wish I was one of them.

This isn't about miscommunication or some gray area that could be interpreted in different ways. I paid for something. He claimed to me and to PayPal that he shipped it. He called me a liar in a retaliatory neg. He relisted that exact item and sold it. And he kept my money.

Use that information as you wish when deciding whether to deal with import-export-co.

SDavid · October 6, 2004 2:08PM

Actually, I wasn't very happy with the lot I purchased b/c of the way the cards were graded, but my point was that if he was being straight up with you, he would have just sent you the tracking # immediately like he did with me. We know he didn't send it to you. I don't think he ever intended to.

schr1st · October 6, 2004 2:47PM

Same here. I paid for the card on 21st. On the 28th I emailed them asking for a status, and on the 30th I got a response saying that it had been mailed out. Come to find out, it was shipped out on the 29th , using ths slowest method possible through Fedex. It arrived today in a bubble envelope with an Office-Max ad wrapped around it for protection. I've sent out $2.00 cards with more card protection and attention to customer service than what they gave to me on an $1000 card. Now I'm debating whether or not it's worth it to risk possibly getting my first negative feedback (albeit retaliatory) for this mess.

skigropple · October 10, 2004 9:27AM

Now I'm debating whether or not it's worth it to risk possibly getting my first negative feedback (albeit retaliatory) for this mess.

I have used the 90 day window to avoid receiving a retalitory feedback a couple of times. Just hit them on the 89th day 2-3 minutes before the end time of the auction and give them the neg. that the person deserves. If they really deserve it give it to them now and help get them kicked off, also add that id to the your blocked bidders list if you sell so they cannot come back and screw you with that buyer ID.
Jim

A royal scr*wing on eBay

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