Can anyone ID these two - apparent Brazilian and Colombian

oldshep

Not good pictures - but any help would be appreciated:First one


Second one



Thanks,
Shep

Spinynorman

The second one is probably one of those UNREAL coins from Colombia.

spoon

The first is Brasil, but I can't get too specific without a Krause. If I remember correctly that's Ico's countermark.

The second I remember seeing in Krause, under Colombia, because I was going to bid on one once upon a time.. unfortunately I can't remember the details

Spinynorman

The first one is a Brazil 40 REIS, countermarked on a 80 REIS. Can you make out a mintmark?

Spinynorman

On the Colombian coin, if the diameter is about 15mm it's a medio real. If it's about 18mm, then it's an un real.

oldshep

Steve - Thanks - the Brazil coin is huge, the other is small approximately dime size - I don't have the 19th century Krause so I can't find either - they were included in a group of South American coins I recently got off of e-bay and these two were the only ones I couldn't indentify. I will measure the Colombia one.
Thanks

Shep
The first is Brasil, but I can't get too specific without a Krause. If I remember correctly that's Ico's countermark

Spoon - What is the Ico's (?) countermark? Thanks for your response.
Shep

oldshep

The Colombian is 18 mm so it must be the Un Real - the Brazil coin - I cannot make out a mint mark or much of anything on the obverse - just the obviously punched 40 on the reverse.
Shep

spoon

Shep, I don't remember which one is which. In the 1830s different Brazilian states did a lot of countermarking (they did a lot outside of that time range, too, but that's where the bulk are in Krause). I pitifully don't remember the names of any of those states, but the CM with the denom in a circle filled with horizontal lines (what you have) is the most common that I've seen.. I think it was Ico.

Don't take my word on any of this though! This is just my fuzzy memory. Maybe newsman or tbirde can help. (might want to alert them to the unknown Brasillian coin in the title)

newsman

The first one is a Brazilian 40 reis counterstamped on a 1829-R 80 reis, KM444.1, probably a VG or F, which makes it worth between $5 and $7.50.

BTW, these are national issues, not from the city of Ico. According to Krause, those countermarks are considered counterfeits. The text in the 19th century Krause is not edited very well, and leads to this common confusion.

oldshep

Thanks newsy - Spinynorman said the same, very interesting coin, why would a 40 be stamped into an 80?? the coin is huge and heavy - weighs in ounces rather than grams - wish it was in better condition because it is so unique.
Thanks for the input!!!
Shep

lordmarcovan

<< <i>why would a 40 be stamped into an 80?? >>



Inflation.

Steve27

The first one looked real familiar to me, so I went digging and found my 1827 80 Reis: