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Palestine Mandate coins

I've collected mint state Palestine Mandate coins off and on now for over 25 years. On and off being that over time the need was great to pay for food and living expenses image These are quite interesting in itself non-uncirculated too being they are holed, have three languages on them, and of course a period of usage over some 20 years total give or take.

The Palestine coins were minted from 1927 thru 1946. Denominations include 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 ,50, and 100 Mil. The 50 Mil & 100 Mil are silver. Each denomination has it's keys and tough dates. The toughest denomination being the 20 Mil. There are only 59 coins to complete the entire set. In circulated grades they are by and large generally available. In true uncirculated (Mint State) conditions they are scarce with many dates very tough to extremely rare. Therefore reading only 59 coins is misleading once you realize just how tough.

As should be understood most at that time spent and used what monies was available. Few if any would be able to save or put away mint examples etc.

While reviewing the recent collection put up for sale by Heritage (earlier this month in Long Beach) I can't help but mention there were more than a handful of dates grossly overgraded. One of the keys, a 1931 100 Mil was actually barely EF at best. It seems the correctly graded examples went for strong money. I was able to pick up only TWO coins to upgrade my set. That said I've got to comment though, that even as graded, and in the high overall conditions overall - it likely took a heck of effort to put them all together.

If there is any interest I'll post a summary of the tough dates in true uncirculated conditions.

Any additonal comments are welcome. ANy other collectors out there chasing this set? I hope I did not bore anyone.

Marc

Comments

  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭
    I'm trying to put together a nice BU certified type set, and right now I'm still missing the 5 and 20 mils, and had to settle for AU on the 50 and 100 mils.

    I was the underbidder on a set Heritage offered at LB that they said was a partial BU set in a Dansco album, so I would love to hear your thoughts on these coins and their availability, especially on grading.
  • spoonspoon Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭
    Great info! Thanks image

    Sidetracking away from the pure coin side of things, though..
    Considering mintages of Palestine coins weren't extremely high, was it common for people of the territory to use foreign coinage in daily commerce? Then again the population wasn't terribly large then either. Hmmm..
    (yes, I'm thinking out loud image )

    BTW, I just posted a Palestine 1 mil in my latest pic thread image
  • harashaharasha Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had a moderately tough time, just finding a 100 mils for my World Coins type set. I eventually found a 1927 in a VF (cleaned) condition. Suited my needs, and the price was quite inexpensive.

    By the way, my brother claims to possess a sovereign minted in Palestine, featuring the head of Edward VIII. I told him that I never heard of such a thing, and that it must be a fantasy coin. Yup, I just checked my CoinCraft. A pattern sovereign does exist, but nothing else, if I understand it correctly.
    Honors flysis Income beezis Onches nobis Inob keesis

    DPOTD
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    newsman,

    that was a nice set - it was partial of course but I reckon the buyer got a solid value. At least he/she has a major head start here with much thrill of the chase yet to come image Those were mostly true UNC's no keys or semi keys though. Most sets sold are quite circulated period.

    You may want to contact William Rosenblum in Evergreen,CO he specializes in palestine coins and currency ( Israel, Islamic coins too) amongst world coins - I know he's got some super 50 & 1oo Mils in UNC. His prices are pretty fair too.

    Spoon,

    I believe they did indeed use foregn coinage - I'm almost positive lots of Egyptian and Turkish money was used in the whole area. perhaps even British as there have been many owners to those lands image . Israel did not commence minting any currency at all until after 1948 either. Mintages are overall really low compared to other countries.
    You know the comment about the population not being large then is actually true if my history is correct - hmmm is in order.

    harasha,

    If you collect world coins in uncirculatd grades you really should pick up one of those 100Mil in UNC. They should cost well under $40 for a '35 or '39.


    Marc
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If there is any interest I'll post a summary of the tough dates in true uncirculated conditions.

    Please!

    BTW, I also bought a few pieces out of the sale. The stuff was too nice. I had to play.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If there is any interest I'll post a summary of the tough dates in true uncirculated conditions. >>

    Absolutely.
    If you can image some of the different types that would be nice too.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ok here goes, and nice to have you on board Andy image


    To keep it simple all dates and anaylsis is based on true UNC* conditions.

    1 Mil

    1937 and 1940 are very tough dates to find in mint state conditions especially rare in RED, followed by Red&Brown. I've seen maybe 5 examples of 1937 in true UNC conditions in the past many years. Balance of the dates are readily available. The first year of issue 1927 is the most common date.

    2 Mil

    1945 and 1946 are scarce but generally can be found with no problem. As above the 1927 is the most common date too.

    5 Mil

    1934 is the key date here and quite tough - very seldom seen , followed by 1941. The '41 when found in UNC for some weird reason is usually a nice example. The balance of the dates are readily available with the 1927 again being the most common date in Mint State.

    10 Mil

    Great group of 12 dates here with the 1934 being the toughest. The 1934 though is often found as UNC but most examples are grossly overgraded. In true UNC this is a rare find indeed. The 1933 is likely the next toughest date and very scarce. I've seen only 5-6 examples in well over 10 years. Next we have the 1935 followed by 1943 in bronze (war years) equally scarce but somehat more available. The most common date again is 1927, the first year of issue.

    20 Mil

    This denomination is the toughest and quite rare in mint state conditons. The key date is 1941 and is very rare followed by 1934 probably equally as rare to find in true mint state conditions. The few I've seen over the years have been overgraded or exhibited way too many nicks to get I'd say anything over MS-62 at PCGS. These two dates are a thrill to own when finally found in pristine conditions. Next toughest date is the 1933 and the 1944 (BR) both equally rare and also seldom found. The most common date if we can even call it that is the 1927 once again, and downright tough mind you.

    50 Mil

    This silver denomination is often found with beautiful toned surfaces. Many seem to have been washed though long ago. The key date here is the 1931 which is actually quite rare and very seldom seen. In fact this date is most often found cleaned with newly toned surfaces. (I was indeed lucky and did pick up the one in the Heritage sale this month - first I've seen so nice with original toned surfaces and all in about 5 years or more. Should have it this week and will try to get a photo of it up.)
    The next tough date is effectively 1934 but while usually available the 1933 seems to be tougher to find. The most common date is 1939 which gives the 1927 a break finally, that said the 1927 is quite scarce indeed in mint state condition.

    100 Mil

    The key date here in this all silver date run and likely the rarest date in the entire 59 piece set is the 1931. This date is almost never found in mint state conditions. In fact the example Heritage had in this past sale was actually bordeline EF. Yes, you read correct, don't ask how, it happens! image . The next tough date and quite rare in TRUE mint state is the 1934 which again is found so often exhibiting harshly cleaned surfaces. Those that have sold as UNC would grade only MS62 with all the nicks common on larger silver coins. Equally as tough and with similar traits is the 1933 also quite rare indeed. The most common date seems to be the 1935 while the 1939 is likely its twin. The 1927 like the 50 Mil is quite scarce too.




    * true UNC (UNCIRCULATED i.e. Mint State (MS) condition) is uncleaned, unwashed, full tendrils/wheats with obvious original luster and surfaces. If necesaary I'll try to elaborate further at another time.

    I hope this little unofficial analysis can help some of you.

    Marc


    P.S.Yousri, that Berlin reference book is the first excellent work done on coins and currency of the Palestine Mandate ever. I recommend it to any serious collector of the series.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks, Marc!
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭
    Great info! image
  • Marc,
    I have a complete set of the series in XF to UNC all 59 of them plus I have the 1 mil souviner token.
    It took me 3 years to complete it. image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yousri,

    Three years for XF-UNC ......, imagine what it would take to complete the entire set in true mint state conditions??image


    Marc
  • Marc,
    The coin budget at the time was not good. and I stoped after the completion of the set. Never wanted to upgrade. I think if you are serious and have the budget, you could do in few months.
    Now I am into mercury, see my sig line.
    You have a very nice set no 5. image

    I am no 76. Long way to go
    image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thanks - it took 2 years to get to #5 and I still have a long way to go image


    BTW, I must correct you - it would NOT take a few months - you are mistaken my friend - it took me 4 years to find my super 1941 20 Mil that PCGS graded MS-64. I believe it is the finest I've seen in 20 years. The key dates are truly TOUGH!!!
    I'm looking for a nice '31 in 100 Mil which I can't find for years now image


    Marc
  • Hi Marc,
    I see, You're lokking for High Grade coins. I was looking for a complete set. The 2 coins you menstioned I have them in XF condition, 1941 20 Mil and '31 in 100 Mil.
    Are all your coins slabbed by PCGS, do you scan of them?

    Once I found a 1927 proof set (2 coins each) for $11,000, however at that time I couldn't spend that much money on it.

    Do you have that?

    If so scans please image.

    Thanks
    Yousri

    P.S. Check this auction:
    COMPLETE SET OF 59 GREAT Palestine Coins 1927 - 1946 (F VF EF) $1,500
    Link is not working. Ebay item no. 3931358450
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are all your coins slabbed by PCGS, do you scan of them?


    most are slabbed in PCGS holders - I trust PCGS solely in most matters. Besides everything obvious, PCGS imho is the most conservative TPG today. A MS64 in there holder is usually a 65 or 66 in anyone else holder. I've found this true darkside and U.S. In my area of expertise, Mercury Dimes they are heads above NGC who is second best. I'd rather own an UNDER-GRADED coin to a maxed out over-graded one.

    That said, if the darkside coins just need to be holdered just for the heck of it I'd probably use another service lower priced fees and all.

    When I have some extra time I'll scan 2-3 examples for show and tell image



    Marc

    major spell check edit lol
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    8/29/09

    Hi all - it took 5 years almost but finally had abit of time this year to take some photos and list the set on the NGC site. I added some comments to most of the better dates for information purpose.

    I wasn't able to add/upgrade much in the past 5 years so they remain just as tough as 30 years ago image


    Here is the link
    Text


    P.S. Sorry if I made anyone reread this thread from 2004 image
  • Nice accomplishment Marc! I guess that I'm going to have to get off my butt and start submitting my collection for slabbing (although some of my 20's and my 1931 50 need upgrading). It would be nice to begin some friendly competition here. Congratulations again on your achievment! image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree Gary..that would be nice.

    Anyone else putting a MINT set together?

  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am trying to. Slowly but surely, as this is not my core collection ----------> This is ------> http://www.omnicoin.com/user_view.aspx?id=Zohar444

  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree Gary..that would be nice.

    Anyone else putting a MINT set together? >>



    Yes, but very, very slowly. I don't know if I'll even finish because the really hard ones might not be worth the expense, but it's fun to try.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ahh yes very very slowly sounds familiar...some of these pieces took decades to find...I agree the hunt was/is truly fun.

  • Hi Marc,

    Well, after carefully looking over my collection, it does seem that my 1940 1 MIL needs an upgrade from AU. I also need a better 1942 10 MILS CN (mine although UNC, has unsightly carbon spots on the obverse). As far as 20's go, I need to upgrade my 1933 and 1934's (from their current VF status), my UNC 1935 has been cleaned at one time, my 1941 is only a nice VF and so is my 1944 BR. My 1933 50 MILS is gorgeous but has light hairlining on the reverse (obverse is a LOCK 65!) and the 1931 is an XF/AU that saw an old polishing (with a cloth, I presume). The balance are all CH to GEM UNC (although the 1931 100 MILS will probably only garner a 62. I checked and my dealer status over here is still current but the guys across the street say I have been inactive for too long and must resubmit my app. for dealer status. Once completed, I then need to decide where to slab based on your comments about PCGS/NGC parity with regards to Palestine Mandate coinage.

    PS. I have a ton of trading material. PM me and I'll 'spill the beans'. image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would def get some of your pieces graded so at least you have a better idea what you have/need etc. It will help you understand better how these coins are perceived, and what they actually grade. Your '31 100 Mil I'd love to see that graded - this is extremely rare in Mint State conditions - I really know of only one example - perhaps two that I've seen in well over 25-30 years. By all means gets it graded - even if you score an AU your doing great as these are just not found period.

    As i told you in an email, I'm really fond of the new NGC holder so I'd probably - but PCGS is just as good.

  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,168 ✭✭✭
    Marc, congrats on completing such a stellar set. image


    Here's to the discovery of a fully gem unc. 1931 100 mil in your near future. image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thanks I'll drink to that indeed - the '31 100 Mil has just been very elusive and the few I've seen over the years have been obviously molestedimage
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought the 1935 100 mils on Heritage tonite.
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I grabbed these two Palestine Pieces today.

    MS-64 NGC 10 Mils, 1927
    image

    MS-66 NGC 5 Mils, 1927
    image

  • Two gorgeous pieces! I just upgraded my 1940 1 MIL to a raw 63/64 RB.
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zohar...repeat after me; I'm a bad boy! image the '27 5 Mil in 66 is really nice...

    Gary that's cool - '40 is a tough date in those grades - get it slabbed image

  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have been a bad boy as I have exceeded my Taler budget and the auctions are coming!
  • Time to renew this thread with pictures!



    1927 Palestine 5 Mils ( I'm biased. I call it 66) image

    image

    1934 Palestine 5 Mils (My grade, 66!, reality, we'll see!)

    image

    Last one for tonight!
    1941 Palestine 5 Mils ( Lock 65!, IMHO)

    image




    What do you all think? More to follow! image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • Thanks Zohar!

    I lied! image

    1942 Palestine 5 Mils Bronze (64-65 FULL RED!)

    image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great imaging and wonderful piece. Keep'em coming!
  • WWWWWW Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭
    Wow! Look at Gary go. Very nice images.
  • Thanks Bill!

    Here's another 2 pieces before I get to bed.

    1935 Palestine 5 Mils (64/65 in my opinion, but who cares about my opinion?)

    image

    1944 Palestine 5 Mils (I'm posting this coin until I take better images of my FULL RED piece. This coin, 64+ BN)

    image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • Good morning everyone! Here is something to start your weekend!

    1939 Palestine 5 Mils ( Probably my least favorite 5 Mils in terms of overall condition ((64?)), but still nice!).

    image

    My 1944 BN in Full RED and 1946 left to complete my 5 Mils images.

    Next up, 1 Mil coins. image
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    shees Gary the pictures are super - puts my photo skills to shameimage

    'bout time you posted these - they all look fantastic - I'll guess the grades abit from here too..... '27 5 Mils looks 65 , the '34 is RARE so nice, I'll say 65 ... its possibly a twin to the one I own! Note some chatter outside of the tendrils - heck at first glanch it screams 66! - regardless anything over 64 is a great find indeedimage way rarer then the '41 "key".... the '41 looks 64 , the '42 bronze is a beauty (Gary..were've u been image gosh I love it - really looks 65RB or 64RD (wudn't be surprised even higher), '35 looks 64, '44 bronze 64BN indeed, the '39 maybe 63.

    Its JMHO I may be off - but quite impressed.

    Marc
  • Great thread!
    Those Mints are money makers!
    Palestine mandate coins
  • Thanks Marc, coming from you, that means a lot! Now, for the remaining two...

    1944 Palestine 5 Mils (it is what it is, RED)

    image

    1946 Palestine 5 Mils (colorful reverse 64ish?)

    image

    Thanks for looking/commenting!!!
    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • Hi Everyone, I just finished imaging and editing my 1 Mil coins. Feedback regarding the coins and photos is most welcome! Marc and Zohar, this installment and the rest that follow are dedicated to you!


    1927 Palestine 1 Mil (RED)

    image

    1935 Palestine 1 Mil (RED)

    image

    1937 Palestine 1 Mil (Gorgeous, original and tough! The luster drips from this coin!)

    image

    1939 Palestine 1 Mil (RED)

    image

    1940 Palestine 1 Mil (tough coin in this RB. Lustrous!!!)

    image

    1941 Palestine 1 Mil

    image

    1942 Palestine 1 Mil (In need of upgrade)

    image

    1943 Palestine 1 Mil (In need of upgrade)

    image

    1944 Palestine 1 Mil (99% RED)

    image

    1946 Palestine 1 Mil (Super lustrous!)

    image


    Enjoy and Baruch HaShem!






    Lurker since '02. Got the seven year itch!

    Gary
  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bump quite the thread from the experts.

  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Blast from the past indeed, I have been out of the loop a few years now after Mandate Mints! set sold.
    I do know a few more MS examples of the '31 100 Mil have surfaced.
    It seems there is a PCGS MS62 example next month at HA.
    Unsure how much of my info from this 2004 post is still accurate or how it might have changed since.
    Gary's (OchoReales) presence is definitely missed.

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