First Refund for PCGS Boxes Offered! Acc. Tests Have "No Short Term Answer" - see last pos

magikbilly

Hi All,
this is another two papers from the many online I found by and for Museum conseravators about the dangers of wood. Why do you suppose they are all up on this...?



CARING FOR YOUR METAL OBJECTS
The American Institute for Conservation of Historic & Artistic Works
Prepared by Julie A. Reilly with assistance from David Harvey and Julie Lauffenburger, 2001.


"The characteristic tarnish on silver is black silver sulfide. Acidic gasses from wooden cabinets and cases can also cause metal corrosion. Vapors produced by plywood and other products that off-gas formaldehyde cause lead alloys and other metals to corrode, forming wispy white crystals often confused with mold growth. Keeping metal objects in a clean, dry, safe environment can prevent deterioration from environmental sources."

"Metals, in general, should be stored with inert storage materials. For example, metal cabinets and shelving should be used rather than wood cabinets and shelving. As discussed earlier, many woods and wood products, like plywood, emit acids and other gasses that cause metals to corrode. Acidic newsprint and cardboard boxes should be avoided. Acid-free, lignin-free wrapping paper and boxes are better. Clean, soft cotton cloth can also be used."

and:

Link to Data - if this doesnt convice you there is potential for harm from wood boxes nothing will

Best,
Billy

"Original" Wood Post (sent to Mr. Hall Aug 5th, responded Sept. 14th....just 3 days after my ORIGINAL Poll closed where 78.79% voted "wood has the potential to harm coins")

Original PCGS Wood Poll Thread (more data)

Link To Another Wood Thread

FC57Coins

TTT - good info - thanks!

magikbilly

<< <i>TTT - good info - thanks! >>




Hi,
you are VERY welcome.

Best,
Billy

MrSpud

Thank you. Looks like more good reading material in the new link you found. Interesting stuff!!!

magikbilly

Hi Mr. Spud,

Thanks!

Best,
Billy

DesertRat

would be interesting to take several ASE's and put them between pieces of varying types of wood...oak, cherry, pine etc... and expose them to a heat source and monitor the toning or lack of.

magikbilly

<< <i>would be interesting to take several ASE's and put them between pieces of varying types of wood...oak, cherry, pine etc... and expose them to a heat source and monitor the toning or lack of. >>



Hi,
from what I have been reading there may be less "corrosion" or tone when there is actual contact. And yes, heat and humidity appear to be the controlling factors, aside from what wood the box is made of, what glues and fabrics - and what else it contains (like some paper) and if it is stored in a deposit box or safe etc... My contention has always been that storage in wood will be problematic over time - not anywhere near as fast as the results of Frattlaws valuable experiment (Frattlaw used heated vinegar - acetic acid - which oak outgasses to the tune of 5% by weight and he clearly showed it can tone a slabbed coin in a closed environment, something others have read in Coin Chemistry by W. White, and not so removed from the topic at hand). I believe it will be proven to be a matter of how much how fast - not if - slabbed coins will tone in a wooden box over time. I asked Mr. Hall to let me know when we can expect the accelerated test results.

Best,
Billy

magikbilly

Hi All,
well, the first refund for PCGS boxes has been offered. The testing is described as "long term with no short term answer"...which does not surprise me at all. Not that far off from the response most people voted would be most likely - "they are ok in the short term not in a safe, and we are not responsible for any "potential" color change" - for those that voted in the "PCGS Response Poll". Will post more data when I can.

Best,
Billy

Russ

<< <i>would be interesting to take several ASE's and put them between pieces of varying types of wood...oak, cherry, pine etc... and expose them to a heat source and monitor the toning or lack of. >>



I have had two Peace Dollars, two 1964 Kennedys, and two 1964 Washington Quarters sandwiched between cedar sitting on top of the water heater since July of last year, and they haven't changed at all.

Russ, NCNE

magikbilly

<< <i>

<< <i>would be interesting to take several ASE's and put them between pieces of varying types of wood...oak, cherry, pine etc... and expose them to a heat source and monitor the toning or lack of. >>



I have had two Peace Dollars, two 1964 Kennedys, and two 1964 Washington Quarters sandwiched between cedar sitting on top of the water heater since July of last year, and they haven't changed at all.

Russ, NCNE >>



Hi Russ,
as the data I have been posting states, there is apparently less corrosion when actual contact occurs. Isn't this seen with textile toning or is it the opposite? You would know more than I there.

Best,
Billy

tcmitssr

I am sure that I am missing this, right in front of my eyes, but where is the PCGS statement concerning this as well as the refund offer?

Thanks.

magikbilly

<< <i>I am sure that I am missing this, right in front of my eyes, but where is the PCGS statement concerning this as well as the refund offer?

Thanks. >>



Hi tcmitssr,
The tests are described as "long term" with "no short term answer". I am waiting to hear from the person who is getting his refund if he minds if I write about it in detail and post the reply he got. No "public" statement has been made - this information has been sent by PCGS to someone who wrote requesting a refund based on the data in the threads lately and the Coin Chemistry book by W. White. I know you sent in a question to the "Q+A" - perhaps if you write again - maybe customer service?
I am happy if this means they are starting to take this issue seriously, and they will have to take a position eventually other than "wait and see".

Best,
Billy